Author Topic: Nailhead Roller Rockers  (Read 8934 times)

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Offline Chris

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Nailhead Roller Rockers
« on: January 14, 2009, 10:12:18 PM »
Guys, I've heard for a while that there is a fellow out there selling roller rockers for the 401.  Has anyone here used them and if so are they worth the money as far as performance?

I've always heard that in order for roller rockers to really pay off, you had to have a roller rods, special cam and lifters. 

I'm assuming that the roller rockers are the only thing out there for the nailhead?

Chris
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Offline Mark Ascher

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 07:35:36 AM »
Chris,

Tom Telesco is making the roller rockers. I plan to have a set on my car - someday.
"roller rods"? - you got me on that one!

You don't need a special cam or lifters, but you do need to know the cam specs and the rocker arm ratio (I don't know what Tom's are) so you don't have the valves hitting the pistons.
Especially with the domes the nailhead configuration uses.

Mark
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Offline Chris

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 05:39:22 PM »
I thought I seen a set of rods one time that had the rollers built into them as an alternative to roller lifters and cam.

Might have been a speciality or concept piece or I'm probably just not remembering the part correctly.

I do have some adjustable push rods I bought last year, do you know if it's a good idea to use these with the roller rockers?  I was told the adjustable rods can "tighten" up the valves and make the engine more responsive etc.  Opinions?

Chris
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Offline WkillGS

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 09:15:04 AM »
adjustable push rods ..... do you know if it's a good idea to use these with the roller rockers?
Chris

Chris the roller rockers are adjustable, so there is no need for adjustable pushrods too. Adjustable pushrods add weight, so avoid them for high RPM applications.

Isky did make a 'Rev kit' that used extra springs right on top of the (roller?) lifters. The whole she-bang installed inside the lifter galley area.
Walt K
Eastern Pa

66 GS Astro Blue/blue 425 auto
66 GS Silver Mist/black 401 4 spd
66 GS Flame Red/black 401 5 spd
66 GS Saddle Mist/black 401 L76 auto
66 Special Flame Red/black 300 5 spd
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Offline WkillGS

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2009, 09:52:51 AM »
I see Tom Telesco a few times a year at the Buick gatherings around here, so I speak to him often.
He and a (now deceased) friend of his started development on the roller rockers nearly 10 years ago.  At one point TA Performance got involved with the project. Things weren't progressing, so Tom T and TA eventually brought two different versions to market.

Toms roller rockers use the stock shafts, stands, spring spacers, and even stock pushrods. They are made to work with all stock valve covers, even the cast alum VC.
Cost in in the $900 range.

The TA Performance version uses needle bearings on the rockers. They are sold as a complete setup with rocker shafts, stands and alum tube spacers (instead of springs). they are designed to be oiled thru the pushrods, so different lifters and pushrods need to be used. They will not fit under the stock cast alum valve covers, and one source told me they may interfere with the stock steel vc's as well.
Cost is higher, over $1k for the rockers, required lifters/pushrods add to that.

I installed a set of Toms rockers on my recent build, but not have not fired it up yet.
I did measure some profiles of a few cams using a dial indicator and degree wheel, and then plot the data on graph paper.

In general, the extra ratio of the rockers will add about 0.050" lift to any cam. They will not change the opening/closing 'seat' times of the cam, so drivability will not be decreased. They will add a bit of valve lift at low low lift.....I've found they will decrease valve-piston clearance about 0.020", which shouldn't be a problem unless you have weak valve springs or a lot of slack in the timing chain.
Valve-piston clearance is tightest during valve overlap....when the exhaust is closing, and the intake is opening. Basically from 10* BTDC to 10* ATDC.

What the extra ratio of the rockers WILL do is increase the overall amount of lift of any cam profile and increase the overall EFFECTIVE duration of the cam lobe, or increase the 'area under the curve' so to speak. On paper it looks pretty impressive!

In effect, adding the roller rockers to a stock cam will give you the performance of a mild performance cam. Adding rollers to a performance cam will turn it into a monster cam but without hurting the drivability!

Are they worth the cost? well, for a 10-40(?) hp increase they are expensive. But as all of you know, it's hard to get extra hp out of a Nail. For a top-performing Nail, I'd say they are a 'must-do'.

Walt K
Eastern Pa

66 GS Astro Blue/blue 425 auto
66 GS Silver Mist/black 401 4 spd
66 GS Flame Red/black 401 5 spd
66 GS Saddle Mist/black 401 L76 auto
66 Special Flame Red/black 300 5 spd
65 GS vert Verde Green/ Saddle buckets 401 4 spd
79 Turbo Regal

Offline Chris

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2009, 11:09:00 AM »
Awesome reply Walt (as usual)   ;)

This is exactly what I was looking for.

I suppose this weekend I need to start getting some stuff on Ebay and start saving my lunch money for a new cam and Telesco roller rockers.

Thanks again!

Chris
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Offline Loren At 65GS

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2009, 08:33:12 PM »
Lunch money ? You mean you get lunch money? lol

  Loren
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Offline Chris

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2009, 10:10:58 PM »
Loren,

I'm the boss in our family and I wear the pants!

My wife just tells me when to put them on and which pair to wear.

In all seriousness, I have a savings account set up separate from our household account that is knicknamed the "Skylark / GS" fund.  We have an agreement that I only buy my car stuff from that account and all the money from anything I sell goes in there. 

The funny thing is that when I travel for work (1 - 2 times a week) all my travel reimbursement money goes to the Skylark GS account and yes.... this includes the lunch money they refund to me.   ;D

I really wanted Brian's stuff.. but didn't have enough in the Skylark GS account.  I had to ask my wife for money from our household savings and she shut me down.

If Brian still has his stuff once I get enough money in the account, I'll try to buy it, but I didn't want to hog the opportunity from anyone else and at that price.. I have a feeling it'll go pretty quick.

I think I need to start planning for more expensive lunches and not eating them!   8)
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Offline telriv

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2009, 06:29:16 PM »
There is more info than most could ever need over at: V8Buick.com   Click on search & type in "Tom's Roller Rockers".

               Tom Telesco
Classic & Muscle Automotive
C/O Tom Telesco
12 Cook St.
Norwalk, Ct. 06853-1601
Daytime phone:
203-324-6045
No answer: leave message, will call back
E-Mail: telriv@yahoo.com

Offline Chris

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2009, 07:03:15 PM »
WOW!   Welcome Tom!

I've been following your rockers on the V8 Board for some time and everything I've heard about them is great.

I want a pair of them really bad (actually have a need for 3 sets) however like everyone else, right now cash is tight.

Do you have a layaway plan?   Ok.. just kidding, but in all seriousness, at least one set is in the works for my convertible in the very near future.

Hope to you see you around Tom... your Nailhead experience would really be appreciated around here.

Thanks,

Chris
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Offline Loren At 65GS

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2009, 07:35:17 PM »
Chris,
I haven't been following ths thread .
Sorry to give you the bad news , but I will be picking up the GS kit the end of March/first of April.

I lied , I get lunch money , I just carry my lunch.lol
Loren
65 GS hardtop BCA Senior
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Offline Chris

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2009, 07:47:27 PM »
Loren,

The GS Kit?  What all comes in that?

From what I've read these rockers are what legends and songs are wrote about.   ;D

I'm a big boy (6' 2" 300 lbs) but I'm seriously considering skipping lunch and supper to get a set of these on my vert. (skipping would probably do me some good in more than one way!).

Chris
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Offline Loren At 65GS

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2009, 08:15:17 PM »
Chris,
Short of the body sheet metal, rear bumper, dash pad and glass. Everything else. Once I get it back to Nebraska, I'll be able to figure out what all I will need to get a couple of projects done. Then, most likely start cleaning the storage area out. What to get rid of will be a chore.

With the move to Nebraska less then 3 years ago, I'm still locating boxes of parts. I filled my enclosed 24' trailer more then once with parts to get it all here. 

Loren
65 GS hardtop BCA Senior
 65 GS thin pillar coupe
 65 Skylark coupe v-6
 65 GS hardtop restoration project
 65 Sport Wagon
 70 GS 455 htp / original engine
 94 Roadmaster wagon
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 63 Riviera

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Offline Chris

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2009, 08:31:26 PM »
Loren,

Ok.. you lost me there for a minute LOL!

You are talking about Brian's GS deal (and what a deal!)

I thought maybe you was buying a set of these roller rockers and there was a "GS Package" I should know about.

That package would've been one hellva start on the Reynolds Buick... add a Skylark post body and poof!   

I'm very glad that you got it and Brian was able to sell it here and it "stays in the family".   ;D

Honestly you've put me out of my misery since I was thinking of everything short of selling my dog to get it. 

Lima Ford announced early this week that they are laying of 70 people effective immediatly and cutting a shift.  They are banking hard on Spring to pull them out of this slump and till then we need to tighten our belts and hold on. 

Please post pictures of your new treasure when you get it home.

Chris



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Offline Loren At 65GS

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Re: Nailhead Roller Rockers
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2009, 09:25:39 PM »
Chris,
Have the post body, needed the GS frame. Wanted the rear end for the other GS hardtop project as the one I had is under a friends' GS back in MN. Also needed the A/C stuff. The rest is a bonus?

Will do the pics.

Loren
65 GS hardtop BCA Senior
 65 GS thin pillar coupe
 65 Skylark coupe v-6
 65 GS hardtop restoration project
 65 Sport Wagon
 70 GS 455 htp / original engine
 94 Roadmaster wagon
 96 Roadmaster wagon- parts car
 63 Riviera

 BCA 14371
 BCA 65 Gran Sport Division