Buddy's Beauty - 65GS Hardtop

[Clatter]

Merry Christmas everyone!
All i want for Christmas is my back to stop hurting! 

Been getting things ready to send off to their respective experts.
Motor mounts to Steele, Steering stuff to Hector Carillo.

Brake booster and master are going to Karp's in LA.
Silly to mess with a single-circuit master, but we're doing a resto.

If someone could take a peek at my pic please - that's the right master?
Hate to send the wrong one off for rebuilding!

Also, the word 'reman' is stamped onto the booster.
See also numbers in pic.
Is that the right booster?
Some kind of aftermarket replacement?

There were also the mount brackets, with serrated nuts on everything.
I'm guessing somebody's been in there.
Those are correct?

Karp's does yellow zinc.
Looks like the hood latch was finished that way?
Same with the booster mount brackets?

Maybe send it all in so it matches..?
What else besides the master cap, booster, brackets and hood latch are yellow zinc?

Did anyone ever put together a list of correct finishes for parts?
Again, I'm vaguely remembering something but can't remember where... 

Big thanks guys for all of the help gentlemen.
Thanks Chuck for the nice mirror.
Walt, Loren, really really appreciate your help.
Knowing the right thing to do is the hardest part.
Wouldn't have a prayer otherwise! 

[cwmcobra]

Hi Steve,

Merry Christmas! Hope your back got a day off.

I'm not an expert on the boosters, but if it says Reman, then I'm pretty sure it's not original. But that said, if it came off the car then it should work. If you're planning to subject the car to 400 point judging the Remfg stamp might be a flag, but I doubt it. A word of caution on replating. I was told that any rusty spots or pitting will be amplified after plating. So be sure to have a booster with the best condition of the front plate to start with.

The master cylinder is not original. They were made by AC Delco. Pictures of the original on my car are attached. Note the location of the bleeder on the unit. Aftermarket units have bleeders in other locations. Having said that, I'm aware of other cars having been judged with aftermarket master cylinders and there were no points deducted. Note that originals are very hard to find.

So, even if you plan to have the car judged, I doubt that either of the parts on your car would be a detraction.

For plating, you don't want Yellow Zinc. You want Zinc Dichromate or as some of my old school friends call it, Gold Irridite. They are very different in color and in corrosion resistance. Yellow zinc will look yellow. Zinc dichromate will look iridescent gold in color. Parts to be plated in this way are vacuum booster face, master cylinder cap, hood latch, headlight buckets, parking light housings and backup light housings. I believe that's a complete list.

Good luck with this part of the restoration!

Chuck

[cwmcobra]

PS: If installing an original type Littelfuse horn relay, the stamped cover can be either clear zinc or zinc dichromate. I had mine plated clear zinc and then bought an NOS piece and found it to be zinc dichromate plated. Either is viewed as correct and show well.

Pictures attached.

 

Chuck

[Clatter]

Whoo! Super good information there Chuck.
Exactly what we like to know.

Now on a quest for the correct booster to have rebuilt.
Anybody got one to sell? 

Looks like our parts car might have a master core.

Talking to my usual rebuilder here Karps,
They only do zinc because of California laws.

Who does zinc dichromate/gold irridite?

Getting a box ready with everything... 

[Clatter]

Been chipping away at it, albeit slowly.

Since the rad support needed so much work i had it blasted.
Gave it a phosphate coat and it's ready for some welding patch work.

Disassembling interior has been an adventure.
The level of detailed craftsmanship here is amazing.
SO many little bits went into place to make these cars what they were.
Because this one is still (mostly) untouched, I'm doing everything possible to be able to replicate the original in every way.
Every bit of each step gets pics taken.
Let's take a minute for us old guys to appreciate digital photography.
Think how much it woulda cost to have ALL of that film developed! 

Little clips and small pieces of vinyl glued in under the door panels...

Thin layer of foam all along the leading edge of the rear package tray under the vinyl...

Things like that. Just crazy.

Found some places where original paint was preserved.
Midnight Aqua is such the perfect color!
Dig how much flake was in the factory paint.
Here's hoping the good folks at Glasurit get that 100%! 

So, here's my latest conundrum.
Reaching out for help from y'all (again). 

Tearing down doors - removing power window mechanisms.
Old factory manual is more than a little confusing.

The window has to be raised and lowered just so in order to access fasteners and get glass free.
OK to jumper window motors out with a 12v battery?
Motors only have two terminals, so up/down is just reversing polarity?

One was taken apart by a PO and adjustments/fasteners scattered.
I'm suspecting a bad motor.
Is there a way to get things apart without being able to run the motor?

SO many adjustments and details to these doors and windows.
Super intimidating...

Once all this glass is out,
Body can go onto the rotisserie.
Almost ready for this build to get interesting! 

As always,
Big big thanks for the assistance gentlemen.

[cwmcobra]

Whoo! Super good information there Chuck.
Exactly what we like to know.

Now on a quest for the correct booster to have rebuilt.
Anybody got one to sell? 

Looks like our parts car might have a master core.

Talking to my usual rebuilder here Karps,
They only do zinc because of California laws.

Who does zinc dichromate/gold irridite?

Getting a box ready with everything... 

Check out these guys. They rebuilt my booster and I'm sure have capability to do zinc dichromate plating.

https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/

[Clatter]

Whoo! Super good information there Chuck.
Exactly what we like to know.

Now on a quest for the correct booster to have rebuilt.
Anybody got one to sell? 

Looks like our parts car might have a master core.

Talking to my usual rebuilder here Karps,
They only do zinc because of California laws.

Who does zinc dichromate/gold irridite?

Getting a box ready with everything... 

Check out these guys. They rebuilt my booster and I'm sure have capability to do zinc dichromate plating.

https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/

Hot tip!
Called them today and it seems like they can totally help me out.
They also might have the right booster core for us as well.

Super stoked to have your help with this stuff.
Thanks again.

[GS66]

Loren might have some brake boosters.

[Clatter]

Thanks for the tip, Jim.
I'm trying to not just immediately message Loren every time we need parts! 

Some stuff has been happening.
486-mile, 12-hour road trip adventure.

Got the Transmission to Santa Rosa Hydromatic.
Steve there is an old guy like us and seems the perfect person to go through the ST300.
He even had a couple of cores for parts if needed.
Supposedly, it was "just rebuilt", but you know how that can go...


Engine got to the Martins at Centerville Auto.

First thing we saw was the boneyard.
Makes a guy nervous tell you what!! 
Best find out your numbers-matching block is OK before spending a grip on doodads!

It was killing us to know if this motor was any good!
Matt pulled a head off straight after we got there.
We knew right then we came to the right place.

The heads seemed decent, luckily no seats installed, not too much already cut.
Pistons were OE, with a ridge ream and hone done.
How well remains to be seen, but a good sign, nonetheless.

Next day i got some pics from Matt showing a few issues.
Check out the JB Weld sculpture inside the timing cover.

Rear main seal surface was rough enough to eat the seal.
Apparently, the crank was rough all the way around.
Just turning it over had already scored bearings.

It was great to meet Russ and Matt.
Couple of classic characters to be sure!

Very glad to have this engine in their hands.
There was a real temptation to just try and start it,
Because it was supposedly rebuilt and ready to go.
Came with oil in it already even, supposedly only needed primed and lit off!

Lots of ways to go about these things...
One man's rebuild is another man's core! 

[elagache]

Dear Clatter and mid-60s Buick caregivers,

Thanks for sharing your travelogue!  You have indeed visited some shops that are kind of "sacred" in the world nailheads and Buicks.

Glad that you feel in good hands!

Keep those stories coming!

Edouard

[Clatter]

Got after it a few more times...

Rotisserie is here and stashed away under the car.
(Nowhere else to keep it  )

Almost ready to pull the body!
The plan is for it to go to Meclec in Fresno.
They're reportedly able to blast big panels without destroying them in the process.

Stripping down doors was an interesting adventure.
Used my kid's motorcycle battery to jumper out window motors,
get them up/down and apart.

Somebody had obviously been in there,
Somebody akin to my 16-year-old self. 
Didn't have a manual, patience or any common sense! 

Driver's side front regulator linkage was all bent up and scraping/grinding against itself.
Motor got worked good no doubt.
Considering how bad that linkage was, it fought valiantly.

Right rear quarter window bottom of the frame is broken off.
Looking in there, a row of Bondo worms poking thru tells the story.
Quarter caved in and broke the frame, but they never fixed it.

See also roller posts bent and caddy-wompus.
A bunch of them were like that.

The left rear quarter stuff had been disassembled and parts lost.
Window doesn't want to go all the way up,
Plan on bench-testing it today.

Between all of them, I can forensically piece together how it's all -supposed- to go.

So,
Two questions for our esteemed experts (OK, maybe three  )...

We have a parts car with manual windows.
Any chance the rear window frame is the same piece as with power windows?
Would love to know before tearing the whole rear corner apart.

Anybody got a good driver's side front power window linkage/motor to sell us?

Anybody sell those rollers/posts?

Is messing with these window motors a good idea?
Maybe there's a guy out there who goes through these?
Saw that spring, and how these are pressed together,
And it's quite intimidating.
Better to just leave well enough alone?
Those motors -seem- pretty robust.

Rollers not so much,,.   

As always, thanks for your time and expertise gentlemen.

[Clatter]

But wait, there's more! 

Check out the numbers inked under the door skin.
Think that's a replacement skin,
Or is that factory?

Also,
How to interpret date stamps?
Is there a thread on these?
This one is on the passenger door.

Lastly,
Anybody know the correct color for the engine mount adaptor plates?
Can't help but think this blue color ain't it...

[cwmcobra]

Can't help with many of the questions. But the adapter plates were bare cast iron. I painted mine cast blast gray. The engine mount plates on the engine cradle also.

Good luck!

Chuck

[Loren At 65GS]

I think the use of the motorcycle battery is a fantastic idea. I've resorted to a heavy automotive battery in the past. Thanks for the idea.
 As I responded in our text messages, it will be April before i am back in Nebraska to check on the window regulator. I bought some power window parts form our late GS buddy Dan A at the GS Nationals a couple of years ago. He twisted my arm till I finally said yes. lol
 Oh, just another thought about the regulator. The arm parts of the assembly should be the same between the manual and the power.
 As for the right rear window frame, it is common to both the power and manual window set ups. Depending on whether you are concerned about date codes matching and that the glass is the same. By that I mean, clear vs tinted.
 The track parts for the windows are the same also between power and manual. So, if you find damaged pieces, you can salvage them from your parts car if it a hardtop also. The rear window track pieces are "body style specific". The front doors use the same for the hardtop and convertible. The post body is specific, I think... but can't say 100%. Maybe crosses over from four door sedan?
 As for the motors, they can be removed and cleaned of the old grease, then re-grease it. Yes, the spring can be dangerous! It can bite you real quick. Run the assembly to the point that the tension is off the spring. That will make things more manageable.
 Don't have an answer for the rollers. That will take a bit of research. They are available.
 I'm leaning towards that being a replacement skin from GM but can't say 100% for sure. I've not been a follower of date stamps. Maybe someone else has knowledge here on this subject?
 Chuck has you covered on the engine and frame plates. I did the same thing with my car some 35 years ago.
 
 Loren

[Clatter]

Man, I really appreciate the help, guys.

Looks like I got a big tear-down session with that Skylark.
The thought was to put the marginal things in place to keep it more or less complete,
But that's looking like a LOT of work for little gain at this point.
Shame, because it's a pretty cool car, actually.

So,
In speaking to Matt Martin,
Talking about what was originally painted what colors and where.

He indicated that the engines were painted at the factory pretty much fully assembled.
Said how they got that green overspray everywhere!
He of anyone should know.
Also said it was hard to bring himself to do such sloppy work...
I was trying to talk him into it.

Is there a thread or any pictures of the factory's sloppy overspray?

There are other restorations where they will re-create that,
And I'm fully game for this kind of thing.

Don't want the car to be "over-restored"!