How Citroën almost became a GM division! (Re: Hemmings Blog)

[option B9]

  Hi Eduardo, Yes I remember the article very well, I even cut it out and have it in my Buick literature collection. I have the V6 225 motor in my 65 Special. It's a good little motor that is odd fire, so it shakes at idle. But when you give a little gas and raise the RPMs it's just fine. Back in 1981 when I inherited the Special from my Grandfather i could not believe how slow the pick up was with the 1 barrel carb. I complained to my father that "this car sucks, can't we get more pick-up out of this car" My Father said "I will fix that". Several weeks later he had me pull the Special in the driveway in front of the garage and he replaced the 1bbl manifold with a 2bbl manifold from a 66 Skylark. Well that afternoon I thought I was driving different Buick, It ran so much better and I could actually get on the highway without a problem.. And this past summer I was getting 21 MPG to and from the Macungie PA car show. I've been running Lucas gas treatment in the Special (and GS) for the last 10 years and have seen the gas mileage go up and better carb performance. I don't sell the stuff. It just seems to work for me. Back when I was junk yard hopping I found many 66 V6 intakes, and they all found good homes sitting on 65 motors. It's a great power upgrade if you can find a 66 manifold OR you can put a 4bbl intake on, I remember the company Weiand had a 4bbl intake for the V6 225. I brought up the idea to my Father and he told me #*^~*%#/ In Italian, That meant NO !

          Tony

[elagache]

Dear Tony and mid-60s Buick caregivers,

  Hi Eduardo, Yes I remember the article very well, I even cut it out and have it in my Buick literature collection. I have the V6 225 motor in my 65 Special. It's a good little motor that is odd fire, so it shakes at idle. But when you give a little gas and raise the RPMs it's just fine. Back in 1981 when I inherited the Special from my Grandfather i could not believe how slow the pick up was with the 1 barrel carb. I complained to my father that "this car sucks, can't we get more pick-up out of this car" My Father said "I will fix that". Several weeks later he had me pull the Special in the driveway in front of the garage and he replaced the 1bbl manifold with a 2bbl manifold from a 66 Skylark. Well that afternoon I thought I was driving different Buick, It ran so much better and I could actually get on the highway without a problem.. And this past summer I was getting 21 MPG to and from the Macungie PA car show.

. . . .

Thanks for sharing!  I didn't realize that your Special had the V-6 or that this engine really needed the 2-barrel carburetor to be pleasant.  I'm glad you kept the car so original.  Not many 1965 Buicks with the V-6 still on the road.

Cheers, Edouard 

[option B9]

Hi Eduardo and V6 fans, That little V6 gave me 30+ years without any trouble. But the spring of 2018 it just was not running the way it should. It was missing under a load so I put a meter on it and the RPMs were bouncing, so I thought it could be a bad plug wire or wires,  after checking It was not ! After checking all the other systems I narrowed it down to a leaky intake manifold. And sure enough after spraying some carb cleaner around the edges of the intake the problem showed itself. So off came the intake. The surfaces were cleaned and new gaskets were installed, and since I had everything was off I went ahead and changed wires, plugs, belts, hoses, rebuilt the carb & alternator, regulator, and put a new petronix chip under the cap.. Other than the "odd fire shake" at idle that little V6 runs great. The engine parts are readily available since it's basically the 300 V8 with two cylinder chopped off. And I have plenty of room under the hood to work on it since there is no AC in the way.
    In the late 90s I upgraded the suspension. I installed a rear sway bar with new boxed lower control arms and new springs that were slightly heavier than stock to handle all the stuff I carry to shows and national meets. The V6 Specials do not have a front sway bar from the factory, so I added an original 65 GS front sway bar up front to handle any roll issues, plus a set of stock height springs and new shocks in all four corners to complete the suspension upgrade. This past June I installed a quick ratio steering box and new power steering hoses to eliminate the "forever" steering. It handles more like a GS than a 6 passenger family 4dr sedan, but it's really fun to drive on long trips ....
       Tony

[Brian]

Tony,
  Please post some pictures of your 65 Special!

[elagache]

Dear Tony, Brian, and mid-60s Buick caregivers,

That little V6 gave me 30+ years without any trouble.
. . . .

Thanks for sharing the history of your Special and its V-6.  I certainly wish my Dad and I had some more expert advice when we became concerned about a coolant leak in Biquette's engine back in 1979.  She basically never fully recovered from that botched first rebuild.

  Please post some pictures of your 65 Special!

When you can spare the time, how about a few photos of the V-6?  I don't think I've ever seen a V-6 in a 1965 engine bay.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers, Edouard 

[option B9]

Hi Eduardo, Brian & odd fire V6 fans.  Yes, the Special is in a rented garage in my area since I only have a 1 1/2 car garage at my house and the GS restoration project and tools have been taking up that space for the last 10 years. But I will take some photos on November 10th when one of the local clubs has a car show, it's the last one of the season. Then most of the vintage vehicles are stored for the winter months unless we have a warm spell as we did last year when I was driving the Buicks well into December, or until the city starts dumping salt on the streets. Then you don't see any vintage cars until after the Spring rains wash away the salt.   
    Tony

[elagache]

Dear mid-60s Buick caregivers,

The Hemmings blog has a piece from Barry Kluczyk featured the November 2019 issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines.  It is a thoughtful review of all the costs associated with painting and body work involved in restoring a classic car:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/time-is-money/

It really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone on this forum, but it is well presented and thought out.  It is definitely worth the read.

Cheers, Edouard 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey Tony, being a lopped off 300 V8, does your V6 maintain the V8 distributor with 2 grounded plug wires? The V6 that was in my '64 had a V6 distributor; nothing converted. Was that '64 an odd fire? Also the '64 2 door post here has a front sway bar. Strange? Im sure gramma never popped for a penny's worth of extras on this guy. Just curious.   Bill

[option B9]

  Hi Bill, My 65 V6 has a V6 distributor and thanks to you I now have a spare that I will be cleaning up and rebuilding as a winter project. Yes the 64 was a odd fire too, It's amazing how Buick was able to sell the odd fire (shake) motor to the public when Buick had such smooth running motors from the 300 to the 425. They must have pushed the gas mileage ratings. My Father said that a lot of those V6 Specials & Skylarks were returned to the dealerships because the owners were tired of the shake and wanted an upgrade to a 300 Special or Skylark or even a LeSabre, that's how we got the green 4dr Special.
   Yes that sway bar is strange, as far as I know they were not equipped with a bar from the factory. Unless the dealer sold it as a add on. Dealers made a lot of money selling add on's once the Buick was ordered. At the Buick dealership that my Father worked for there were two Woman in the office that were on the phone selling add on's to new customers and repeat customers. They worked on commission and they made more than the mechanics in the shop !!!

Also, I was not on the internet yesterday due to a bad cold. I just want to say "Thank You to all the Veterans" Freedom is not free... 

   Tony

[yachtsmanbill]

Excellent Tony! Stay on top of that cold! Im just "starting" to get over a case of chronic bronchitis thats next stop was pneumonia. I was really down for a few weeks! Giant horse pill antibiotics etc.

My '64 was delivered new to Roseland Buick in South Chicago. Thats where grandma bought it. Wondering if the dealer did the upgrade on all (most?) new deliveries for the sake of being able to upcharge the extra 12.00 LOL.. With mine, the whole front suspension was 100% at 38K miles, but the bolts through the links were wasted. New grade 8's at 4.00 each took care of that haha...

Got today off (no doctors etc!) so Im getting out to the frozen tundra to extricate the gas tank and start pulling up the trunk floor. Take a look at the extra '64 stuff Ive listed for sale. HUGE discounts for previous buyers!

Stay warm guys...  Bill in sub arctic Two Rivers, Wi.

[yachtsmanbill]

Live from the shop! Siphoned 7-8 gallons of gas outa the BADLASS and ready to drop the tank. Great work when you can get it! Temp is 15F and a 30Kn wind. Great... pics later. Cant do them out here...    Bill

[option B9]

  Hey Bill, I took another look at the parts you have for sale, but did not see what I need. Do you have a signal light lever ?  The one on my GS project  is really pitted and I don't have a spare. If not I will ask the other guys and see what they can come up with.

   The cold weather came into the city yesterday, when I got up this morning at 6  It was 24 degrees and the city salted the streets. So now my Buick's are in for the winter. Plenty of winter projects to keep me busy until March/April .

            Tony

[wildcat65]

For some reason my dad was into Citroens.  He had a couple DS models in the 60's, later he had an engineer friend at Ferodo in France that purchased a '56 Traction Avant 15 (the 6 cyl)
for my dad.  He had the brakes and clutch reworked in France with the best Ferodo had and brought it to the USA  on a ship.  Dad kept that car til about 1990 but it looked exactly like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9lLp7vtr3w

[elagache]

Dear Ted and mid-60s Buick owners with a soft spot for Citroëns,

For some reason my dad was into Citroens.  He had a couple DS models in the 60's, later he had an engineer friend at Ferodo in France that purchased a '56 Traction Avant 15 (the 6 cyl)
. . . .

Thanks for sharing!  My Dad also had a soft spot for Citroën but never could afford one before immigrating from France to the United States.  As a young man, he owned a Peugeot.  Then in 1968 he was "convinced" to switch to Buicks! 

I don't remember if I've posted a reference to this old History Channel documentary on 65GS.com or not.  You can view it on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1NqwT1ZJ8

It is an interesting 47 minute overview of the company.

Cheers, Edouard 

[elagache]

Dear mid-60s Buick caregivers,

Hemmings is sharing with us an article from their classic car magazine on the compact car offerings of Buick, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile in 1961:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/three-identical-strangers/

It includes some period advertising posters and describes how each division put a different spin on what was essentially the same car.  It is an interesting bit of history that leads up to the Buicks we are most enamoured with. 

Enjoy!

Cheers, Edouard