455 in a '65???

[Rickesota]

Hi!

I have access to a free '75 or '76 455. It spins freely and that's all I know about the condition. It's only rated 200 HP stock and I'm sure the 7.5:1 CR isn't any help. Is this still a good basis for a build? I'm not building a race car, just something that is reliable, sounds right, and will haze the tires.

Thanks,

Rick

[tsollazo]

I've done this in our '65 as well.

Best thing for you is to go to the V8buick.com site. All gods of the 455 are there and they will be happy to help you.

Depending what you are looking to do there are some fitment considerations we can help you with.

Tony

[elagache]

Dear Rick and mid-60s Buick fans of "super-sizing,"

I have access to a free '75 or '76 455. It spins freely and that's all I know about the condition. It's only rated 200 HP stock and I'm sure the 7.5:1 CR isn't any help. Is this still a good basis for a build? I'm not building a race car, just something that is reliable, sounds right, and will haze the tires.

Obviously, the 1965 engine bay wasn't designed for for the later big-block, but big-blocks are frequently put into these cars.  My trusty wagon is one such car.  Here are a few photos of the engine bay:











It is just about impossible to use headers with the stock heads, but you should be able to make everything fit with the exhaust manifolds.  It is a very tight fit for the steering column.  TA-Performance sells the engine mounts and frame pads for these engines.  You can reuse the engine bay wiring harness if it is in decent condition.  The big-block will be rather tall in the engine bay.  A standard carburetor should be okay, but something taller like a EFI throttle body might force to you go with something other than the standard 3" filter elements.

I don't know much about the later big-block engines.  If you intend to rebuild it though you have considerable freedom.  You certainly could increase the compression ratio which will give it more horsepower.  Keep in mind though that the stock 300 cid engine was rated 210 horsepower back in the day.  So to make it worth your trouble you need to get more kick out of the big-block than it might have ended up with with all the pollution restrictions of the mid-70s.

That's all I can think about off of the top of my head.  If you have more questions - don't hesitate to ask!

Cheers, Edouard 

[Rickesota]

I'm still waiting to hear from the guys at V8buick. My biggest question is regarding the engine itself. Is it a waste of money to start with this particular engine?

[GS66]

I think you have a pretty good block, should be fairly easy to add some horsepower. Good luck!

[Rickesota]

It'll at least have lots of torque!

I just started a 3-month medical leave. Hope to check out your rides once you pull them out if winter storage!

Rick

[GS66]

I'll try and meet you for lunch too one of these days.

[elagache]

Dear Rick, Jim, and mid-60s Buick fans of "super-sizing."

I'm still waiting to hear from the guys at V8buick. My biggest question is regarding the engine itself. Is it a waste of money to start with this particular engine?

I just left some feedback on your V-8 Buick thread.  The engine is a perfectly reasonable set of "bones" to start with, but that's as much a problem as a solution.  You need to decide how much money you want to spend and what your goals are.  If you want to spend Cadillac (silly me, Buick!) there are enough speed parts for the Buick big-block that you can build something amazing.  The engine in my trusty wagon can produce 500 horsepower and around 530 foot•pounds of torque.  Alas, I paid for all that - twice! 

I mentioned on the V-8 Buick thread that you can get a working Buick 350 for pocket change.  These are nice engines that will fit in a 1965 engine bay with much less pain.  There are now many more speed parts for the 350, so you can make it plenty peppy if you don't need the all-out torque of a big-block.  A friend of mine put a 350 into a 1964 Skylark and he did a really first class job.  It looks like it rolled of the factory with that engine.

So you need to give the matter some though and decide how much money you can afford to spend on this project.  Rebuilding a 455 will cost you some and doing it right will cost you more.  The more speed parts you add, the more you'll pay.  Given that you don't know if this engine is running, you're committed to rebuilding it.  Is that a cost you want to take on when you can get a working engine and add speed parts to it gradually as you find the interest (and money.)

You've got to decide.  All I can say is that my trusty wagon's engine remains at the moment mostly a negative example!   

Sorry, but it is better to learn the truth earlier than after it is too late!

Cheers, Edouard

[Rickesota]

my friend who's giving me the 455 also has a '69 350 4bbl...but it's in another car that he may be selling. And I've seen Buick 350's sell very cheap...starting to rethink what I'm doing here, seeing that cost is a driving factor, not timeslips. I appreciate everybody's input!

Rick

[GS66]

Rick, 98 days until the Power Tour!😀😀

[WkillGS]

The 350 is a very easy swap, it's basically a 340 with better heads.
The 75-76 455's supposedly have a heavier duty block (cyl wall thickness?) but also have low compression heads. An aluminum head swap will sure wake it up! You should double check what the compression would be before buying those heads tho.

[elagache]

Dear Rick, Jim, Walt, and mid-60s Buick fans of "variety,"

When I got started on my wagon's engine swap, another board member Ted Nagel make up for me this list of potential issues:

• Engine mounts.  These are readily available.  The ones in your car are stamped steel and they are bolted to the frame.  The new ones are cast and have to be bolted on too- from inside the frame, so the bolts are hard to start and tighten.  On the engine, the metal/rubber mounts have a couple places to bolt to the engine, make sure to get the right location.
• Transmission.  I used a ST400; that required moving the crossmember back a couple inches.  Now I think it would be OK to use a TH350 built up to handle the power of 455, and retain the existing crossmember mount and cooling lines.  I think the cooling lines can be adapted to either TH350 or TH400.  I've used the column shifter with both, P, N, D line up perfect.  First gear does work but the pointer bends every time I shift into 1st...then bends back the next time I shift into park.  I ended up going with a 200-4R overdrive transmission that is the same length as the TH350 that was there.
• Driveshaft.  Our automatic driveshafts have a vibration isolating rubber sleeve that may not hold up well to 455 power.  If you use a TH350 you do not have to have the length or yoke changed and you could keep the existing driveshaft...I think eventually the rubber sleeve would fail causing problems. If you use a TH400 you will have to get one made with a th400 style yoke.  My wagon still has the original driveshaft.  Thus far it shows no signs of falling apart.
• Radiator.  The original radiator can be re-cored with new cooling tubes.  I have a shop that recommended a "D" core, which has the tubes on 5/8 centers (vs 1/2"), basically more cooling surface area.  My wagon had a V-6, I had a 3 row "D" core installed with the V-6 radiator and it cools my 455 in all conditions.  I have no experience with aluminum or aftermarket radiators, as all the radiators I've used have been original / re-cored.  I ended up buying an aluminum radiator from TA-Performance.
• Power steering- the hoses in the car should connect up to the 455 PS pump.  If you decide to go with the 350 instead, you can even reuse the 1965 power steering pump for a more original look.
• Fuel lines/ pickup tube...for a 455 you may need 3/8" (min) fuel lines and pickup tube.  I think Inline Tube has the bigger lines for the wagon.  the 5/16 line will not provide enough fuel for the 455.  Since I switched to electronic fuel injection I don't know if this was needed or not.  A 350 would not need larger fuel lines.
• Exhaust.  I think I have seen a system for the wagon w/455 now.  When I did mine, I bought a 2.5" system from TA Performance and modified it for my wagon. At least that is easier now!  I started my project with headers, but had clearence and fitment problems.  Once I changed to cast iron manifolds, the engine fit perfectly.  As I mentioned, I went with Stage-2 heads and matching TA-Performance long-tube competition headers.  As Ted mentions, no other header combination really works.  I got a dual exhuast system from Pypes, but the TA-Performance exhaust systems are reputed to fit better.
• Electrical .  You may be able to re-use the existing wires like I did.  The V- 6 wires were a little short, but they are still working!

I hope that gives you a better idea of what's involved with swapping engines in general and Buick big-blocks in particular.

Let us know what you decide!

Cheers, Edouard 

[Rickesota]

Wow that's pretty comprehensive! Thanks so much! I'm in a holding pattern for three months while one of my hands recovers from surgery, but that just means more time to plan!

Rick

[elagache]

Dear Rick and mid-60s Buick "day-dreamers,"

Wow that's pretty comprehensive! Thanks so much! I'm in a holding pattern for three months while one of my hands recovers from surgery, but that just means more time to plan!

Since you will be stuck in planning mode for a while, you might enjoy going through the photos I took the swap in my trusty wagon.  They are in an online photo album:

https://canebas.smugmug.com/Biquette/Drive-Train-makeover

The photos aren't that well organized and some of the captions could probably be improved but it should give you some idea of what is involved and what are the potential problem spots.

I hope your hand recovers completely and that the process goes as smoothly as possible!

Cheers, Edouard

[wildcat65]

I'm still waiting to hear from the guys at V8buick. My biggest question is regarding the engine itself. Is it a waste of money to start with this particular engine?

Edouard has quoted me- thank you!  I type so slowly, it cheers me to see all that typing already done.
He has some more extremely relevant info added into what I recommended to him.

Later "blue" blocks are desirable as they are supposed to be the strongest of the 455 blocks. 
If you are not thinking about a rebuild then it is not worth it IMHO.
But, it is a starting point for a rebuild with better parts.  The heads are the weak part as they are low compression.

Your plan is the same as I had in 1992 for my Wagon.  I purchased a junkyard engine- a 76 455- and was going to
put it in my wagon as it was.  Then I talked to TA Performance and ended up buying many parts...
did a full rebuild, hsd to get different heads and have them converted to Stage 1 ... tried to fit headers and they never came close,
so ended up with cast iron manifolds.  So many mistakes, but it started with just wanting to use a 76 455!
Cheers,