Early Car Questions

[halfmoontrail]

Hi Guys,

I'm Steve, and I have a '65 GS convertible "square emblem", see cowl tag below.

My original hood has the ornament but not the "BUICK" letters, and the front parking lamps don't have the "grilles".

Also, when I got the car 18 years ago (just shy of basketcase), I got a pair of wheel covers with spinners...could these have come on the car originally? I have heard along the way that all GS had the rally wheels, so that's what I put on the car.

Also, my cowl tag is attached, can you guys decode it for me, line-by-line?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Steve
halfmoontrail@yahoo.com

[Chris]

Hey Scott, welcome to the club.

I'll help with the wheels question.

The wheel options included, spinner hubcaps, wire spinner hubcaps and the famous ralley rims.



The lens grilles appear in all of the press release photo's I have so I'd guess that they are just missing.  Anyone ever seen any of the early cars without the Buick letters but with the hood ornament?  I know the Specials have the letters but not the ornament.

Someone with wicked VIN tag decoding skills want to help Scott out?   ;D

[Mark Ascher]

Hi Steve,

I'm don't have "wicked skills" (;D) but I can get it started.
02B is second week of Feb. body build date.
65-44467 is a Skylark V8 convertible.
112440 is the body number from Flint, where it was built.
159 is saddle buckets.
C is white/exterior color - don't know what 2 designates, but that is the color of the top.

The last line with the code numbers is unknown to me. Many times these codes were plant specific. Fremont cars many times had no codes.

I'll take a stab at these, but you need to tell me if the car has this -
"X" is something to do with console
"P" is floor mats or carpet savers?
"W" optional exterior mouldings?
"F" tire specifics - not known
"G" positraction?
"K" back up lights?
"S" tilt wheel?
Your car is one of 1,181 GS converts built at Flint.

The chrome rallye wheels were an option. I think the spinner caps were standard. Most magazine road tests from when they were new had these wheelcovers.

In another post, I stated that Specials may not have had hood letters. I'm probably wrong on that. I would open the hood, and look inside to see if the pierced holes are there and whether they have been filled in.

Mark

[halfmoontrail]

Thanks for the decoding, Mark.

 :'(Wrong front bumper, it's from a special or sportwagon as you mentioned, with smaller parking lamps.

Right front fender has wrong trim, maybe a Skylark fender, although I'm still hoping it's trimmed for ventaports.

Probably wrong hood from the same event that caused the above.

Trunk is odd being drilled for BUICK letters and no Gran Sport emblems, what trim did other cars in the line have? Did square emblem grille cars have the same Gran Sport script on the trunk as the later cars?

Thanks for your knowledge,

Steve

[Mark Ascher]

Steve,

Glad I could help. The venti-ports were GS only, meaning they had rectangles cut out of them for them to work. The Skylark fender will not have this. They are not difficult to cut out. I did this on my car, as I used Special fenders.

All the Skylarks and Gran Sports were the same on the deck except for the emblems. The Skylark obviously has "Skylark" back there, and the GS had "Gran Sport". All Gran Sports used the same deck lid emblem. I should point out that emblem is specific for the decklid.

Mark

[halfmoontrail]

Dang it...wrong deck lid, too.

Oh well, I'll look closer at my '64 Skylark deck lid...can I assume that the "Skylark" and "Gran Sport" emblems had the same hole pattern?

Steve

[Mark Ascher]

Steve,

I'm actually not sure if the Gran Sport and Skylark emblems are the same. I can take a picture of the front and back of the emblem if that would help. I should do that for all of the emblems.

Mark

[Brian]

The '64 and '65 Special trunk lids had the "B-U-I-C-K" letters centered at the rear of them, wheras the Skylark trunk lids had the skylark emblem over to the pass. side corner.  The hole patter for the GS emblem and the Skylark emblem are definitely different.  The Skylark and GS Trunk lids did not have the "B-U-I-C-K" letters--just their respective emblem over to the pass side corner.
   Never seen a '64 or '65 hood without the "B-U-I-C-K" across the front of it--most likely a custom job whenever the car was either wrecked or painted.  None of the '64 hoods had the hood ornament, nor did the '65 Specials--only the '65 Skylarks and GS cars.   
   If your car has the small turn signal lenses, then someone definitely replaced the bumper with one off of a Special. 
   I am suspcious that your grille emblem has been changed too--I have never heard of one built that late with the square emblem.  All of the ones I have seen were built in Jan of '65, but that is just my observation--could be it came with it. 

[Mark Ascher]

Brian,

Thanks for the info - stop in more often!

Mark

[jaredyocum]

I also have questions about my cars specifics , I will try to get a picture of the tag but for now : my tag reads  first line (under the general motors corparation) is 0ID second line,ST 65-44437 FB 96025 BODY third line,TR 159 AA PAINT fourthline,2LP-3H-4FS and then of course at the bottom it has BODY BY FISHER

[WkillGS]

Jared, glad you could join us!

0ID    01= January, D= fourth week
ST 65-44437     Body style= V8 Skylark hardtop
FB 96025 BODY    FB= Flint assembly plant, 96025= sequence number
TR 159   TR= Trim code, 159= Saddle Bucket seats
PAINT  AA   = Regal Black

2LP-3H-4FS
Some data may not be correct, but here's a try:
2LP= Second Group; L= 4 speed!!,  P= (could be radio, convenience group, or back-up lights))
3H= Third Group, H= Optional exterior trim
4FS= Fourth Group, F= Outside remote mirror, S= Tilt steering wheel??

[WkillGS]

Steve,

Here is what I have for your option codes.
I have the decoder for 1966, and many are the same for 1965.
Some 1965 codes we are still gathering data for.

Second Group:
K= Air conditioning
X= ST300 automatic trans
G= Long console
P= Back-up lights or ??

Fourth Group:
F= Outside remote mirror
S= Tilt steering wheel??

Fifth Group:
K= Door edge guards
W= Seat belts with retractors.

Please let me know if these match your car (or not)
Nice to see you decided to keep the car!

[Mark Ascher]

Hey Jared,

01D is the fourth week of Jan.
65-44437 is a Skylark V8 hardtop
FB 96025 is the consecutive body number at Flint
159 is saddle buckets
AA is Regal Black top and bottom
2LP-3H-4FS is pure speculation. I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than I would step in regarding the codes. They are still somewhat of a mystery, to me anyway. To get a better understanding of how they worked, go to www.442bro.com and go to the Acc. Codes link. Understand that he has Lansing codes listed, but some are probably the same for all a-bodies. I have some codes for the Buicks, but many times the letter code has a number that goes with it and the tag may not list it. These are numbers and letters that Fisher body used to build the bodies for each assembly plant, and not all plants used the same systems, Fremont being the key example.

More knowledge on GM assembly methodology can be had at www.camaros.org if you want your mind melted:
http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
http://www.camaros.org/bodynumbering.shtml
http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#CowlTag

Mark

[jaredyocum]

Thanks gang ! I think you are very close , my car does have all those options except it does not have tilt steering. It does have an optinal motorola reverb witch my have been discribed as a radio option.Did all 65s have chrome trim around the top as though it had vinyl top ?

[Mark Ascher]

Jared,

The trim you describe was on all 65 GS hardtop and post cars. The Skylarks used a different trim called "halo" for two-tone and vinyl top applications. I think that the GS top trim was used on other a-bodies that were two-tone or vinyl top equipped.

Mark