Secret experimental 1964 GX 455

[yachtsmanbill]

So is the POT behind the dash now? The two reference points would be hinky-dinky for me.  I know Im the dummy sometimes, but could an adjustable "fader" be made to work?  As in ON-OFF/Full/Empty? Ive got a few small micro-pots that would be unnoticeable. If the resistor in that video is any indication of needed impedance, the smaller unit should work with two small telephone sized wires to the gage?   Bill

[elagache]

Dear Bill, Bob, Michael, and mid-60s Buick owners seeking wisdom, . . . . 

Ya' darn guys!    I didn't have time to respond to this posting and you've got way ahead of me . . . . 

Still, I might have what Bill needs.

All I know is what Loren had posted about the sender being a 90 ohm unit. Hmmm. My new "1964-1967" sender read 19-94 ohms- Full to Empty on my bench.

. . . . .

There should be a way to install a resistor in the sender line to collaborate the system. Any electronics' whiz kids on board??

. . . . I'll have you know that I have a Bachelor of Arts degree from the Physics department of none other than the University of California, Berkeley!   So I should be able to solve problems like this! . . . . . Alas when it comes to electronics I've more or less forgot! . . . . 

Fortunately, I am considerably better at searching the world wide web!  I found this piece that appears to provide instructions on how to "trim" the output from your sending unit to work the 1964 gauge correctly:

http://alteredz.com/gagecalibration.htm

Let us know if 1.) you can make sense of it and 2.) if it does seem like it will cure Bertha's problem.

Cheers, Edouard 

[yachtsmanbill]

Excellent! After making a few computations in my head, and transposed onto a paper towel, I came up with this. I think we are headed in the same direction, but one of us stayed at a Holiday Inn last night  and the other slept in the car. Hmmm. That dissertation, while making some actual sense, lends itself more to theory than actual.
With the new sending unit measuring between 9.0 and 94.0 ohms respectively , the known amount of fuel still being 13-14 gallons should now give me a known value of approximately 63.5 ohms. If I read that close to the sender, I am going to assume its proven accurate (+ or -) and the gage or feed (12vdc / -minus the resistance wire value from the sender) will be at fault. Discounting any extra resistance from loose or corroded connections.
Seriously Ed, Im gonna follow the step by step testing method from the service manual. Hopefully its a bad fuse, or a poor/open ground. If that fails, its off to more complicated methods of diagnosis...

The less complex translation follows below if you dont wanna do the math LOL.  It took me 4 years to flunk algebra haha.     Thanks, Bill

[35chevcoupe]

WOW !!!!!
Thatmathiswayovermyheadi,moutahere.

[TrunkMonkey]

Yes Bill, the pot would be a slider. If you went that route, one that would be 0-60 or 0-100 Ohm use the contact on the gauge that is connected to the "wire wrapped" resistor to change the resistance between that and the sending unit. The other side of that resistor is a ground.

It might need to be run parallel, but I think is would work in series and raise/lower the resistance value of from the sender to the gauge.

[yachtsmanbill]

So, starting out with 15 gallons of fresh gas and the gage buried "FULL" we drove around town, maybe 20 miles, and made a few quick stops. The gas sloshed around in the tank and rapidly changed from FULL to about 5/8 for a few sloshes, then steadied back up at FULL. I have a feeling all of a sudden with 5 gallons left the gage is gonna rapidly drop to 1/8 to 1/4 again. I can live with that if thats what it is. I know when its full, but NEED to know when its getting LOW.

Started out for a spin today to finish off bleeding the LF wheel cylinder. Brakes want to pull to the right when stopping. Make sense? I bled the LF and the pedal felt good. Did a walk around and sure as shit the MC (#5 now) is leaking at the back running down the booster. Saw  the puddle on the floor when bleeding and just knew... A finger wave confirmed that. The reservoir was a tad low as well. Hmmm. Finished the walk around and sure as heck, the LR had a puddle on the floor. Thats why the pull to the right. It was wet from the drum to the rim to the tire to the floor.

I know I cheaped out when I had the stuff apart and merely blew out the junk outa the wheel cylinders, and there was PUHLENTY. Now one is leaking so all 4 are getting changed. The rears are 11.00 each and the fronts (L&R) are 26.00 each. At least the fronts have fresh wheel bearing service and the rear drums were off as well. Its not like I dont have anything better to do right?  But HEY! The GD valve covers are dry as a bone!

ROT-AUTO has the stuff way cheaper, but its 4 days and mucho shipping. Then if one leaks, out comes the K-Y again. Im already dilated. I can return these in town and have another almost same day.   Bill

[elagache]

Dear Bill, John, Michael, and mid-60s Buick caregivers who aren't so handy with figures,

In those immortal words of Silvester da' cat . . . . . .

. . . . "So that is how to catch a bird, . . . . . . . S-s-s-s-simple, isn't it!" . . . .

Excellent! After making a few computations in my head, and transposed onto a paper towel, I came up with this. I think we are headed in the same direction, but one of us stayed at a Holiday Inn last night  and the other slept in the car. Hmmm. That dissertation, while making some actual sense, lends itself more to theory than actual.

Sorry, I only glanced over the instructions.  I was extremely late yesterday and that was all I could do.  Looking it over today, it does seem correct and the fellow provides a spreadsheet so that if you simply want to get the resistor values you can use that (assuming you can beg or borrow access to Microsoft Excel or equivalent.)

With the new sending unit measuring between 9.0 and 94.0 ohms respectively , the known amount of fuel still being 13-14 gallons should now give me a known value of approximately 63.5 ohms. If I read that close to the sender, I am going to assume its proven accurate (+ or -) and the gage or feed (12vdc / -minus the resistance wire value from the sender) will be at fault. Discounting any extra resistance from loose or corroded connections.
Seriously Ed, Im gonna follow the step by step testing method from the service manual. Hopefully its a bad fuse, or a poor/open ground. If that fails, its off to more complicated methods of diagnosis...

You certainly cannot go wrong starting with the Buick troubleshooting instructions.  That's probably the best first step at this point.

The less complex translation follows below if you dont wanna do the math LOL.  It took me 4 years to flunk algebra haha.   

WOW !!!!!
Thatmathiswayovermyheadi,moutahere.

. . . . Now that's actually quite simple. . . . . .

First, you involve the Higgs Boson (the "God" particle) and then, . . . . . you start praying like crazy!! . . . .

Cheers, Edouard 

[yachtsmanbill]

Dont forget to face Bals Spire! Thanks Ed, I appreciate all the help you give me, but some of us knuckleheads call dem' brainiacs "Poindexter".  Berkley EH? were you there for the Days of Rage?  Thats a local phenomenon here now LOL.  Im in for a proctological brake job tomorrow; the one behind the waste gate. Problem is I cant send the scope in first. However Im gonna eat that adenoma for lunch ! CHOMP CHOMP! I WILL win!   Bill

[yachtsmanbill]

Well the brake wheel cylinders and new master turned out fine. Just enough of a struggle that I was not feeling guilty about "tuning up" last night LOL. Went for a spin today and guess the DS rear shoes were too soaked with brake fluid to come clean with brake cleaner or even some driving. No runs, no leaks, one error. Zapatos Nuevos probably monday. Picked up a 60's vintage LISLE brake tool at a garage sale for 50 cents tho... only a day late for the wheel cylinders but right on time for monday LOL....Picked up a BRAND NEW AC Delco battery for the BLASTER and put that one back into the XGS.

FINALLY diagnosed the horn relay. Horns work fine but the relay is bad. Can that be serviced at all?  Hot wired the horns BLARE! There was a relay on edog that ended yesterday and I missed it. They guy had TWO and sold them both. No more available, so I am in the market for new or used or substitute.   Bill...

[Loren At 65GS]

If you are referring to the horn relay that has the battery cable junction , they often can be repaired.  Most often the electro magnet has a broken wire at one end or both. It is somewhat of a challenge to re-solder. I’ve fixed a few. The corners of the cover need to be carefully un-crimped  It’s easy to break the plastic, so be careful. I also clean the point connection inside 

 Loren

[yachtsmanbill]

Thanks Loren! I thought maybe they were like a Model T coiled and packed in tar or something.  Bill

[yachtsmanbill]

GS Sedan gave me a link to Ames Pontiac. They used pretty much the same relay but is right around 69.00. OPGI has the same thing for 110.00 I am def. gonna try to repair this one. If it fails, Ill use the post for an OEM buss connection and integrate a late model horn relay parallel into the system. I also need to install a main fuse right there, so what the heck, eh?

Man the horns from Trunk Monkey are loud as heck when hot wired! 

Any other ideas?    Bill

[yachtsmanbill]

So I found this obscure supply outfit... tons od NOS vintage parts. Is this the semi-correct horn relay Im looking for?

https://ocpnw.com/collections/horn-relays/products/nos-horn-relay-made-in-usa-hr121

Its a twin to the sold out edag units. Mine was toasted beyond repair. Soldering frog hairs to rusty unproven internals and  wasting a full day is not my forte! Has anyone else retro fitted a modernrelay to replace this? I dont mind some wiring, but electronic stuff and me is like salt and pepper...     Bill

[yachtsmanbill]

On  another note re: fuel sender... When I installed the new SS generic sender, I put in 5 gallons of fresh gas and it showed about 1/8 tank. A trip for gas  with another 10 gallons netted me pretty much full. I drove around a bit for a few days and filled to the top. The gage was down to 7/16 of a tank and I put in 12 gallons. I can work with that. These tanks being non baffled slosh a bit. Is it normal to have the gage fluctuate substantially while driving?   Bill

[Brian]

Bill,
  Yes, that relay will fit and function just fine.  It is for the 63 and older models, but will bolt up without any problem.  I found one on a 62 or 63 big car in the junkyard and put it on my GS when I first got it running and it worked fine until I restored the car and replaced it with the correct one.  If your car is an early build 64, you can just claim that it was built with some leftover 63 parts....
   BTW---save your original for me.  I guess I am strange, but I enjoy fixing delicate electrical stuff like that and have the equipment to do it.