Opinions on Jet-Hot coatings to lower engine bay temperatures?

[elagache]

Dear mid-60s Buick owners who don't like "it" (their car's engine bay) hot. 

Since my trusty wagon's engine is still out of action, I have been looking to options to reduce the engine bay temperature.  As far as I can tell, Jet-Hot coatings has the best performing coatings to trap heat in the exhaust headers:

https://www.jet-hot.com/

It is a hassle to send headers over there, but I can see that my wagon's engine bay is too hot and this might be the reason the electronic fuel injection is quitting on me.  I made a quick check of "da' usual resources" and I haven't seen any screaming problems with Jet-Hot.  Anybody around here have an opinion about them?  Any personal experiences?  Perhaps most importantly of all, any bright ideas about shipping TA-Performance competition long-tube headers (TA 2014CHC) such that they arrive in the same condition that they left my house?

A curious mind would definitely like to know! 

Cheers, Edouard 

[elagache]

Dear mid-60s Buick owners who like a cool engine bay (in more ways than one!)

I went ahead and had my trusty wagon's exhaust headers coated by Jet-Hot.  I picked their best insulating coating in the hopes that would lower the engine bay temperatures enough to resolve the heat-soak problem I was having with the electronic fuel injection components.  The headers had been previously ceramic coated by a local shop.  Here is the driver's side header with the old coating:



It definitely looked very nice and it was providing some additional heat insulation over the product that the headers originally came with.  However, you can see the damage done by scraping the headers against the ground and near the top of the headers you can see that some of the coating has been removed by the leaks in the heads.

Here is the Jet-Hot coating on the same header:



These coatings aren't as shiny in order to accomplish the additional insulation.  Here is the passenger side header before:



Here is that header with the Jet-Hot coatings:



So the next test will be to see after the engine is installed once more if the electronic fuel injection components become more reliable.

Cheers, Edouard 

[Loren At 65GS]

 Scraping headers seems to be oh so common on these cars.  Got to watch those speed bumps and slow pedestrians.   

  Any news on the engine ?

  Loren

[elagache]

Dear Loren and owners of mid-60s Buick with limited ground clearance,

Scraping headers seems to be oh so common on these cars.  Got to watch those speed bumps and slow pedestrians.   

Not only speed bumps, but steep ramps, pavement disturbed by tree roots, etc.  I'll definitely try to be more careful, but the headers are quite low on my wagon.  I can't imagine anyone trying to live with a car like this that rides even lower than stock!

Any news on the engine ?

Well, Mike at TA-Performance swapped the first set of Johnson lifters for a second set and this set is as quiet as anything he has installed.  So he is hoping to button up the engine soon and send me a total so I can get a check in the mail.  Perhaps the wait won't be too much longer.

Thanks for your support!! 

Cheers, Edouard 

[jmos4]

Hi,

Not sure on how much heat reduction in the engine compartment,  but it does last and look good for a long time, I have a Toyota Pickup that I put a jet coated header on back in 2005 and still looks like new even living in the rust belt

Good luck with getting the car back on the road

Regards,

[cwmcobra]

Well, Mike at TA-Performance swapped the first set of Johnson lifters for a second set and this set is as quiet as anything he has installed.  So he is hoping to button up the engine soon and send me a total so I can get a check in the mail.  Perhaps the wait won't be too much longer.

That's really good news, Edouard!  You've been waiting a LONG time and we've been as impatient as you are to see and hear the results.  Hope we'll all be satisfied with good news soon.   

Chuck

[WkillGS]

....
Scraping headers seems to be oh so common on these cars. .....but the headers are quite low on my wagon.  I can't imagine anyone trying to live with a car like this that rides even lower than stock!

Taller tires on the front will increase header-to-ground clearance. I recall you were considering new tires anyway.
I unfortunately went the other way not realizing how much of a difference it makes.....
My blue '66 had 225/70-15's on the front. I switched to a 235/60-15 and now the Kustom headers scrape on the slightest bump in the road. I plan on making a pie cut in the header collector and rewelding to give me some more ground clearance. I just got a TIG welder so this should be a good job for it.

Good to hear your engine will soon be on it's way home!

[GreatScat1965]

Wow this post goes in several directions. Here's my $.02 for what it is worth:

Ceramic coating will lower engine compartment temps. You decide on the brand be now they are all pretty good. i was an early adopter and sent mine someplace in Connecticut if i remember correctly. This was back in the late 1990's.  Make sure the coat the INSIDE and OUTSIDE if you want any noticeable results. Added benefit, more horsepower if you can keep the heat in the pipes.

As far as the fuel injected motor running hot, the leaner the engine runs the hotter it will get. 14.7 to 1 is great on for Suburban but I suspect these old inefficient engines like it a bit richer. Controlling the engine temp should outweigh and fuel mileage loss.

Noisy valve train. been there done that even got the t shirt. Problem 1, the push rods have 2 different tip styles. the big round ball ends or the more modern looking end. Some lifters will accept the ball style and some will not. They have pushrods one end old style and one end new style. Lastly, they come in many lengths since the stock drivetrain is not adjustable. That's all from experience, if you want a more professional opinion I'd suggest talking to Tom Telesco or Carmen Fasco especially if you plan to use anything adjustable in the valve train.

Finally, header clearance. Many of you know my car, it sits a slight bit higher  than stock with 215/65R15's on the front. I still have the old "club" headers which I thought was a copy of the Kustom headers from back in the day. I've never whacked them. (Some one else managed the ding the D/S one however) I don't consider them a low hanging header although I've seen headers on our cars that hang quite low.

As always, just trying to contribute. I'm not an expert although i played one in Vette Magazine once.

Recently downsized out of my career and very bored,

Jerry
 

[elagache]

Dear Jim, Chuck, Walt, Jerry, and mid-60s Buick caregivers,

Not sure on how much heat reduction in the engine compartment,  but it does last and look good for a long time, I have a Toyota Pickup that I put a jet coated header on back in 2005 and still looks like new even living in the rust belt

Jet-Hot has some coating formulations specifically made to trap heat inside the heaters:

https://www.jet-hot.com/thermal-barrier/

I decided to go with those coatings because according to a December 2017 article in Car Craft the proper coating reduce the engine bay temperatures by 50? F!

Taller tires on the front will increase header-to-ground clearance. I recall you were considering new tires anyway.

Yes indeed!  I need to revisit the thread where I got all your good advice!  The tires on my wagon have been left sitting now for two long spells.  They need to be replaced ASAP.

Ceramic coating will lower engine compartment temps. You decide on the brand be now they are all pretty good. i was an early adopter and sent mine someplace in Connecticut if i remember correctly. This was back in the late 1990's.  Make sure the coat the INSIDE and OUTSIDE if you want any noticeable results. Added benefit, more horsepower if you can keep the heat in the pipes.

Yes, this is all correct.  Jet-Hot does coat the inside and outside of the heaters.

As far as the fuel injected motor running hot, the leaner the engine runs the hotter it will get. 14.7 to 1 is great on for Suburban but I suspect these old inefficient engines like it a bit richer. Controlling the engine temp should outweigh and fuel mileage loss.

Yes, ultimately I gave up on tuning for fuel economy and instead went for "mellow and quiet."  My wagon's engine is substantially quieter than the Chevy small-block in Orinda Motors shuttle wagon.

Noisy valve train. been there done that even got the t shirt.

This engine has modern components including a hydraulic roller cam and roller rockers and lifters.  As a result, it is a bit more noisy than a stock Buick big-block.  However, the issue never was normal noise.  Out of the blue the engine developed a ticking sound and nothing we could do here in Orinda solved the problem.  Mike Tomaszewski concluded that it was the brand of lifters what was the problem and he switched to a more trustworthy brand.

Thanks for all your support! 

Cheers, Edouard

[cwmcobra]

This engine has modern components including a hydraulic roller cam and roller rockers and lifters.  As a result, it is a bit more noisy than a stock Buick big-block.   

Edouard and all,

I feel the need to correct a bit of this statement.  There is no reason that adding roller bearing components into lifters and rocker arms should add any noise to the system.  In a properly functioning hydraulic valvetrain, other than overspeeding the engine, about the only source for unusual noise is wear in the valvetrain components (including valve guides) or a sticky hydraulic lifter.  Wear creates a different animal with respect to noise.  But if the noise is created by sticky lifters, it results from the valve(s) hitting the valve seats in the cylinder heads at too high a velocity.  The closing ramp designed into the cam profile seats the valves gently during normal operation.  If a hydraulic lifter gets sticky or stuck internally, it creates a gap (lash) in the system and the valve no longer closes on the ramp of the cam, creating the ticking noise that we all dread.  The valve hitting the seat too hard.  If not fixed, it will lead to wear of both the seats on the valves and in the cylinder heads.  A properly designed hydraulic valvetrain system shouldn't care whether it has roller components or not, with respect to noise.  It will definitely like the lower friction though.   

I'll add that in modern engines that have many roller components in their hydraulic valvetrains, many exhibit ticking noise that sounds like valve noise.  What's actually heard at idle is the internal workings of the fuel injectors.  I'm no expert on those, but know that many confuse fuel injector noise for valvetrain noise.

Off my soapbox.  I sincerely hope that your engine with the freshly rebuilt valvetrain will be every bit as quiet as a stock Buick big-block.  There's no reason that it shouldn't! 

 

Chuck

[Rollaround]

Chuck, please feel free to jump on your soapbox as often as you like, I always learn something reading your soapbox talk or SBT. 

One other note on headers, in addition to generating excessive heat in both the engine and passengers compartment, damaging spark plug wires and any other wiring that get near them, burning fingers, reducing clearance, dragging on speed bumps, generating excessive noise, making it more difficult to remove starters and engines, increasing engine oil and transmission temps. They also pass very close to the brake distribution block or brake distribution valve if equipped on 'A' Body cars creating conditions for boiling the brake fluid (see below, use wet temps) and in the case of a distribution valve damaging 'o' rings.   

Ok, I admit it, I'm biased, unless I'm going to the track, I don't like headers for street use.

[vinnie]

Chuck, I too enjoy your soapbox sessions, as well as your quest for the perfect, correct car. As far as headers, the best thing I did for my car was to remove them.

[GS66]

Funny, I love the headers (sound and ok) on my Astro blue convertible and the black 66 but I would not put them on the other 2 cars. On mine the headers don?t rub and make the car sound more like a muscle car. For my white 65 and the other convertible I don?t see headers as a part of the project, different goals and purpose.

[elagache]

Dear Chuck, Kevin, Glenn, Jim, and mid-60s Buick caregivers,

I feel the need to correct a bit of this statement.  There is no reason that adding roller bearing components into lifters and rocker arms should add any noise to the system. 

Well your points are valid, but Mike Tomaszewski was so desperate to understand what was wrong with my wagon's engine that he tried swapping in a set of stock rockers to compare.  He reports that they were a bit quieter.  That really is reasonable since Buick had to live up to their reputation as a luxury car maker, while aftermarket rockers are indeed for performance not quiet.

Off my soapbox.  I sincerely hope that your engine with the freshly rebuilt valvetrain will be every bit as quiet as a stock Buick big-block.  There's no reason that it shouldn't! 

Thanks for the encouragement!  Although the noise level really wasn't the problem to start with.  The engine wasn't working correctly last year.  That's why I sent it back to TA-Performance.  It definitely needed new head castings at least.

Ok, I admit it, I'm biased, unless I'm going to the track, I don't like headers for street use.

If I had the luxury of starting this project over with a clean sheet of paper, I don't know what I would do.  Nonetheless, I do have a friend who runs headers in his daily drivers whenever possible.  His goal is the same as mine - improved fuel economy.  Certainly this project has suffered horribly from my naivety of these sorts of details.  For a daily driver, it is definitely imperative to have the best insulating coatings you can get for the headers.

I'm just not your typical classic car owner.  Biquette was our only car for almost 10 years.  As such she became more of a pet than just transportation.  It is rather miraculous that the car survived all these years.  Having to take care of just one car doesn't give you the background of experience to make good choices like how to have a custom engine put together.  I have most definitely paid dearly for my ignorance.

Oh well, . . . Edouard 

[Super65lark]

I've run headers virtually the entire time I'm had Ruthy. Love the sound. Hate everything else that comes with headers.
If I had the choice now, I would gladly ditch them for a nice exhaust that is tucked right up in the undercarriage, without leaks.