65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Projects & Restorations => Projects & Restorations => Topic started by: Clatter on August 20, 2024, 11:38:16 AM
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Two guys going for a full resto...
Back story is over here on V8Buick.
https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/buddy%E2%80%99s-beauty-%E2%80%9865-gs-build.393837/ (https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/buddy%E2%80%99s-beauty-%E2%80%9865-gs-build.393837/)
Now that I know where the 65GS people are located,
We'll get into details here.
Attached are some 'as found' pics to get us started.
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Because both of our cars, the GS and the Skylark were rear-ended in the past,
We had to find a clip.
Luckily, we found this site,
And that led us to Kurt, 'kcombs' here who was selling a rear clip.
Additionally, we found a rotisserie, which we will also need, near Carson City.
About 275 miles from here...
So Buddy came by at 4AM, and we lit off into the dark.
My oldest son agreed to come help as well.
Up I-80 and over Donner pass before 9. Balling the jack! :laughing7:
We got to meet Larry and see his huge shop.
He's liquidating everything for health reasons.
Cut us a great deal on this thing.
Cigarillo -and- oxygen.. Classic old hot-rodders breakfast. :angel4:
Loaded up and off!
500 miles in, we're visiting Kurt in Clear Lake, loading up a clip.
Couldn't be more different than the last place.
Kurt's shop is immaculate,
And he's got the most killer projects going.
The place is 65 heaven.
He schooled us on all kinds of '65 details,
Gave us a few extra parts, including a GS radiator, another decklid, rear window section...
Big Big thanks for hospitality and help to my man.
Very much appreciated.
He took us for a ride by the lake in his vert,
And we were off, for a total of 700+ miles and 14 hours of driving.
Came home way after midnight.
BIG ol' car day.
The stage is being set..
:occasion14:
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Took until the next morning for us to get the clip and rotisserie stashed away in Buddy's yard.
It was quite the adventure.
Also got to hook up with Dano here,
He came by to see the girls and give me more info on things Buick.
Starting to learn more about this game and how it goes.
Also found the correct steering column and have it coming from Jim 'GS66'.
Another car project - a Fiat (big mistake) is getting done.
More specifically we're getting done with it, :BangHead:
And now there is room in my shop, and life, for Buddy's Buick.
Following the flat-bed here, unloaded and in back.
Let the games begin..
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It was great meeting you all and I am happy someone is going to be able to use that rear clip.
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Hey Hey my man, sorry to disappear on y'all,
But we have had a life hiccup lately.
Nice to be on the other side of it and back on track.
Yesterday i dug into the thing to see exactly what we're dealing with here.
About six hours of work done, even though it took all day! :tongue3:
Extra points for racoon tracks.
Messy to be sure. Much junk in the trunk.
Rear hit was pretty good.
Bent the rear panel, bumper, both taillight housings and the crossmember.
Front bumper got tapped pretty good as well.
Sad to do it,
But those bent bumpers and crooked housings all went to the scrapper.
Nobody's ever going to be straightening anything that bent.
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Spent a bunch of time going through and cleaning all of the parts as they come off.
Bagging/tagging.
Putting them in a box and labeling it.
Got to remember what's in that far corner of the attic,
Months/years later when assembly time comes...
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Couple of questions for those in the know...
Trying to get my head around correct finishes.
This is to be a 100% restoration,
As close to 'new at the dealer' as possible.
Is it OK to powder-coat chassis things?
Correct for things like bumper brackets, inner fender, wheels, etc. is semi-gloss black?
Would any show judge out there ding someone for having powder coat vs. actual paint?
A couple things i was contemplating getting done now vs. later.
First,
The spare tire.
Any way to tell if this is indeed a correct OG wheel from this car?
Markings or some such?
Also,
Re-finishing a jack.
This is the correct jack for this car?
Say, semi-gloss powder for the foot and parts,
Maybe cad or zinc for the main shaft?
Silly details to be sure,
But want to get going on things that take time,
So there isn't a big list of unfinished business later in the project.
Much thanks,
Steve
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As long as the gloss level is correct, powder coating would be fine but keep in mind that the front chassis and sheet metal is the ground circuit for the front lighting, like the park/signal lights. As is the rear bumper bracket is for the backup lights. Those heavy duty, barbed washers used in mounting the bumper brackets help to complete the ground circuit.
Just my opinion, but most judges couldn't tell the difference.
The spare tire pictured is not correct for a GS. The correct one is a six-inch width and has a hole, about 1/8" in one of the raised bumps. There is also a stamped marking near the valve stem hole. If I recall, correctly, that marking is a "C" with a circle around it.
There were two styles of jack used. The one you have pictured and a solid "T" shaped style. I think the style you have was used by the Fremont assembly plant and the other style was used at the other three assembly plants. That might be an interesting thing to try and document.
As for the finish, the post portion I've seen, looks to have been zinc plated. Maybe cad?
The other pieces would look correct in a semi-gloss finish and powder coat would hold up well. One would probably never use it again anyways. lol
The devil is in the details and details do make a difference in my mind.
Loren
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My T-shaped jack post is plated clear zinc. I think zinc dichromate would be acceptable as well. I concur with Loren's assessment of the black paint on the base and hook.
I've never had points deducted for my jack...
Chuck
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Oh, man, thanks for those pics..!
We fished that spring out of the side of the trunk rail yesterday.
Thought it was junk and tossed it.
Going out of town at 4AM tomorrow,
Jumped out of bed,
Ran out,
and fished it out of the trash! :hello2:
Close call!
Trash day would have come and gone before we came back.
:angel4:
Takes a village gentlemen.
Thanks again.
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That spring is a rare piece. I almost tossed one the same way because when I parted the cars I only saw one and I didn?t think it was a car part. It seems a lot of guys are powder coating but I agree that it isn?t really hurting anything. I am not sure that a clean frame would ever rust after a resto irregardless.
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The bumper jack hold down spring is a near exact copy of an old door closing spring. I bought mine at a local hardware store. Thank you Brian Stone for the heads up on that info.
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Mine is also from a hardware store and shortened to fit.
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What are you guys doing for the thin trim around windows and drip rails and whatnot?
Ours is scuffed and scratched.
Did any survive on shelves somewhere?
New Old Stock parts Ive gotten before suffered from shelf rash.
Usually worse shape than parts kept on a nice car.
Anyone ever strip, polish, and re-anodize that stuff?
How about aftermarket?
Any out there as original?
This car here will be getting a very nice paint job with cut n buff,
And we need to find a way to get the trim looking right.
Thanks again for taking the time gentlemen.
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Trim around windows is a toss up either find best used to polish or buy repro ! Make sure it is BOP not Chevelle as the rear window trim will not fit! Drip rail I would go with repro as nos is not easy to find and it is usually has oxidation! Hard to get off and also hard to restore! Also make sure that it is BOP as Chevelle will not work! Belt reveal or wide trim as it’s called, hardtop can be bought repro from the Pontic
guys! Or find nice ones to have reanodized, Post original wide trim would have to be restored ! Convertibles had stainless trim in wide trim or without! Best to find originals and restore stainless! Halo trim would have to be restored and also vinyl top or division trim would have to be reanodized!
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A note on powered coatings. As stated, if the finish is correct it looks great and is far more durable and longer lasting than paint. However, avoid using it on engine pulleys; its durable smooth finish can cause belts to slip.
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What are you guys doing for the thin trim around windows and drip rails and whatnot?
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Windshield and rear window trim is stainless. Scratches can be sanded out, then polished. Even dents can be pressed/hammered out, filed into shape, sanded and polished.
Aluminum trim can have the anodizing stripped and then polished. You don't necessarily have to re-anodize it, tho the appearance will differ a bit.
I don't see the 'belt reveal' molding on your car, it was optional. It goes at the bottom of the side windows/top of the door. You likely have window fuzzies with a small chrome bead?
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The spare tire pictured is not correct for a GS. The correct one is a six-inch width and has a hole, about 1/8" in one of the raised bumps. There is also a stamped marking near the valve stem hole. If I recall, correctly, that marking is a "C" with a circle around it.
Loren
Went out there yesterday to air up tires and looked very closely.
One of them was different than the other four.
It had crimping around the center hole.
(https://65gs.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5692.0;attach=25310;image)
Also didn't have two little bumps by the valve stem like the other four did.
(https://65gs.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5692.0;attach=25312;image)
Third pic is of the odd wheel.
Some markings by the stem..
(https://65gs.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5692.0;attach=25314;image)
Any chance the Fremont cars could have been using different wheels during production?
Five original hubcaps were in the trunk,
Plus, with the rest of the car so original,
Seems odd that they swapped wheels, but anything is possible...
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What are you guys doing for the thin trim around windows and drip rails and whatnot?
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Windshield and rear window trim is stainless. Scratches can be sanded out, then polished. Even dents can be pressed/hammered out, filed into shape, sanded and polished.
Aluminum trim can have the anodizing stripped and then polished. You don't necessarily have to re-anodize it, tho the appearance will differ a bit.
I don't see the 'belt reveal' molding on your car, it was optional. It goes at the bottom of the side windows/top of the door. You likely have window fuzzies with a small chrome bead?
Thanks again for all of your help sir.
These would show that our car came without the belt reveal?
Car also didn't have any wheel opening trim.
I kind of like the clean trimless look.
More 'businesslike'... :glasses9:
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We picked up these 14 inch rally wheels as part of the deal.
While they will do for now,
How to tell a set that is correct for a 65 GS?
(https://65gs.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5692.0;attach=25322;image)
(https://65gs.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5692.0;attach=25324;image)
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Found some numbers stamped into panels.
"Date codes"?
Side of the hood,
As well as the rear panel.
Fully plan on saving as much of these as possible.
Don't know where to look, and don't want to miss any.
Even if a panel gets replaced,
can cut and section to the new part.
If panels have already been replaced,
maybe there's a way to stamp correct numbers?
Is there info here somewhere to locations and/or how to decipher?
Yep,
We're going that far.... :headbang:
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Dear Clatter and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Thanks for your postings and your clear attention to detail! :hello2:
Unfortunately, I do not know the answers to your questions, but stay tuned, and I'm sure someone will chime in soon enough!
Edouard
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Thanks Edouard,
I do have a LOT of questions!
Hopefully not so nitpicky i scared everyone off! :help:
Attached are some pics of more questions! :icon_scratch:
Radiator was obviously freshly recored.
Can anyone tell if it's a correct '65 GS radiator?
IIRC, the cores were thinner originally, right?
Also,
As the PS pump gets drained by the woodpile,
Anyone know if it's the OG style pump for this car?
Only evidence i can find is in the OGPI catalog,
Where they mention the cap as a 'Big block' cap.
Can't find any markings on the thing.
As always, i appreciate any input.
Let's save one more 65GS gentlemen.
:cheers2:
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The radiator looks correct for an automatic non-AC GS. The power steering pump also looks correct. There were two different ones used. One had the tall fill neck like the pictured one and the other had a short fill neck. I've seen both styles used and don't know if there was a specific reason for one or the other. Assembly plant? Particular supplier? :dontknow:
Pump cap OPGI price? Wowsers. CARS Inc, has new seals for that available.
Loren
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1966 used the short fill neck ps pump, 65's were tall. I don't know if it was a model year change (September) or a running change at some other time.
There were some '65 and earlier models that used the short neck as well, maybe the Riviera for hood clearance?
The radiators are unique for 65-6 Skylark GS due to the position of the inlet/outlet. Mid sized Fords had that arrangement as well, but were overall a bit taller. In a pinch, I once used a Ford rad after trimming it's top/bottom reinforcements.
The radiator originally had a tag soldered to one of the tanks with an ID code on it. Codes are listed in the Assembly manual.
I believe they were 2 rows thick std and 3 rows for HD and AC. I once had a 4 row core installed way back when they were easily available.
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Much thanks for the info, gentlemen.
Will be looking for that radiator tag.
Exactly the kind of thing i need to be learning.
An ignorant PO can be the bane of a good original car!
Jim messaged me about the wheels.
Thought I'd put this info up for archival purposes.
Here's the skinny --> https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,5334.0.html (https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,5334.0.html)
65 rally wheels are unique in that they weren't welded all the way around,
Only in four spots.
This being where the rim is welded to the center.
Ours are later ones, (aftermarket?), welded all the way around (attached).
Not that we care right now,
But, one day, if we see any, we'll get them.
Until then, i know not to spend a bunch of effort re-chroming/restoring these ones.
Also, some more pics of our pump.
The list of vendors has Lares as the go-to.
Will reach out to them.
Turns out our alternator was recently replaced with a shiny new one from Autozone or O'Reilly's or something.
Bummer.
Can anyone tell me about the original alternator?
Probably hard to find, as these were commonly replaced.
Maybe someone even has one to sell? :icon_biggrin:
Much thanks as always gentlemen.
Very much appreciate your taking the time to answer my newb questions.
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Trying to do my homework...
Bugging you guys (again). :angel4:
Did my non-AC automatic GS have a fan clutch?
Manual shows one, but now looking at pics, maybe not?
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The radiator I gave you was original and had metal tags on it. I don’t think you can save them and recore the radiator. But I think those tags are what you want.
My 65GS, four speed, did not have a fan clutch. And the radiator had plug to seal off the transmission line hole and it came that way from the factory. The plugs had slots in them if I remember correctly.
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I agree that radiators were same stick or auto?
Only difference was a/c or no a/c. Non air cars had four blade direct fans. Wheels are 1965 only and 66 and newer look nearly identical?center caps 1965 only?14x6 Buick road wheels were used into the eighties and not worth replating. 1965 wheels are very rare and a full set is like finding a set of 1970 trans am wheels. Use the wheels you have with the correct center caps?just paint them correctly with cast iron gray instead of black. I had several of them and did not put them on a balancer before painting?.make sure they are straight. I wasted a bit of time on that one?the caps from CARS are a nice repop.
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66 into early 67 still had polished wheel centers the later had a pebble look to them as they were shot peened for strength! Only around 5500 out of the 200,000 65 a body cars had road wheels ! So after 60 years they are even harder to find! A non AC alternator would be # 1100708 in a 42 amp date coded, these were used only on the 65 gs! The AC alternator # 1100709 is a 55 amp date coded and were also used on some 66 Riviera GS models and 65 gs! Neither one of them is easy to find!!!!
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Jon,
How did you know only 5500 came with them? I have one of my originals left and my dads car still has all four of them?.I looked for some a few years ago but they are usually junk when you find them and very expensive to restore. On a side note?.why is my grammar so bad? I am not typing all those question marks that make me appear to be illiterate..weird.
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Copy of material usage shows by plant and total! They could be ordered on all A bodys
Do you have the correct lug wrench ?, they also are hard to find! I have one set took me years to find nice originals!
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Attached is Buick Chrome Road Wheel Info published a bunch of years ago. For your reference.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Oh, man, GREAT info there gentlemen.
Just messaged the PO to see if he did not leave the old
alternator lying around.
The car only has like 60K on the clock, so the possibility is there.
I am planning on taking the other radiator (thanks again Kurt) and seeing if the radiator place can either harvest and move the tag, or maybe test or re-core that radiator?
Thinking this restored one might have another row?
Like with the wheels, luckily this is all stuff that can be done whenever and is not a ton of re-work to get right.
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By the way, my restoration does not have 65 chrome wheels. And I've never been dinged for them in judging. FYI....
Chuck
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Yeah, easy to get carried away with these things to be sure.
Could not see show judges lying on the pavement, scooting under a car to inspect the backs of wheels. :laughing7:
I get the single quote turning into a question mark as well.
It's a problem. :icon_biggrin:
Solution seems to be to avoid contractions.
Instead of don't use do not.
Funny,
When my kids were in kindergarten with a bunch of other spoiled little California princesses,
They had an exercise they called Big Problems - Little Problems.
"Try and think of a really big problem"
They came up with things like global thermonuclear war,
Or perhaps an asteroid hitting the earth.
Getting apple juice instead of grape juice did not seem like a problem worth screaming/crying anymore.
Even as adults i use that all the time still! :icon_biggrin:
New alternator, later wheels? Little Problems. :laughing7:
Does not mean i will stop looking for the right parts, though... :angel4:
We can be driving the car around with these wrong parts searching for correct ones.
Now to go to the parlor for a new 1100708 tattoo.
It'll go good with the 1-2-7-8-4-5-6-3 on my other arm... :glasses9:
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By the way, my restoration does not have 65 chrome wheels. And I've never been dinged for them in judging. FYI....
Chuck
And Chuck's green car is absolutely exceptional, if I am thinking of the right one. You had it at the Nats in Ohio this year right? Used to be Dave K's? If so, I chatted with you and Dan a bit.
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By the way, my restoration does not have 65 chrome wheels. And I've never been dinged for them in judging. FYI....
Chuck
And Chuck's green car is absolutely exceptional, if I am thinking of the right one. You had it at the Nats in Ohio this year right? Used to be Dave K's? If so, I chatted with you and Dan a bit.
Yep, that's me....
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They are painted correct so he would likely be the only guy honest enough to tell you they are not original. Neither are mine but they look right from several feet away?the difference is very subtle even if you look close. The correct tires make them look even more original if that is the goal. I found some original whitewalls that I finally got mounted?.have not run them down the road yet
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Almost got seat frames off to powder coat.
Dag, they are crusty!
Can't even tell what color they were.
Anybody know what color is correct for seat frames?
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The seat frames were bare metal. Same thing for the seat tracks, but the front and back portion from where they bolt to the floor to where they make the bend is painted semi/ flat black.
Loren
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Oh, I forgot to mention that if you have the power seat option, there is a plastic piece that is on the outside from the front of the seat track to the back of the seat track. Those are pretty fragile and tend to get broken.
Loren
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Good stuff.
Think we'll have the seat frames clear powder coated.
That way it will look original,
But also keep the blaster honest. :tongue3:
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Here's the radiator Kurt gave me.
These tags are the ones that ID a 65 GS radiator, correct?
Also,
The core is thinner than the other radiator,
Not was wide as the tanks.
(see pic)
That's because maybe the other rad got re-cored with an additional row?
More rows means more cooling but also that wouldn't be correct?
Was going to take this OG rad in for re-coring,
But maybe better to just have the tabs brazed on the other radiator... :dontknow:
What do you guys think?
Would anyone ever ding us for having the core be too thick?
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Got a beautifully restored OE alternator from Walt.
It's just lovely...
Big thanks for sharing the treasures.
I'd love to hear the detailed story of these numbers and what they mean.
Also scored an NOS remote mirror on eBay.
Posted these on V8,
But I just can't help showing off! :icon_biggrin:
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Steve,
Glad the alternator made it to you in good shape. Enjoy!
Chuck
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More cool stuff arriving in the mail.
Big Big thanks to Jim for the smooth column. :icon_biggrin:
Treasure! :hello2:
As you can guess it leads to more questions...
Been doing homework, and there are two different switch assemblies.
I'm guessing that this is the 'Guide' signal assembly here.
Is the column the only part that has to match?
Said another way,
There aren't two versions of the steering wheel or other parts, right?
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Something else cool...
A guy from the Fiat forum (of all places) sent me a copy of this old article.
Any chance it is already in the archives here?
If not, i can scan it for upload.
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They say there were two -and- three-speed automatic trans options...?
Is that correct?
:confused4:
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Only two speed automatics.
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To answer the question are there different steering wheels! Yes and no the reason that I state is that the wheel design was used 64-66? The difference that you can run into is that some wheels have provisions for mounting the cancellation cam for a tilt column ! So a wheel that does not have holes could not be used on a tilt column unless they are put in! But could be used on a non tilt 64-66! You have different colors used for the three years to match interior colors!
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Excellent info gentlemen.
Getting going rounding up all the little pieces and parts.
Sometimes it takes a while, sometimes a few tries..
Sometimes you find out the stuff is on back-order (forever) and sometimes the new stuff is junk.
Been beating up Buddy's credit card right good! :cheers2:
This resto is pretty much straight from the "Parts Sources" sticky at the top of this category.
Got inquiries to a bunch of vendors for their parts,
And some are on the way.
Others are going out,
Like horns to hornworks and the power steering pump to Lares.
Hope to be getting the brake booster and hood hinges, going as well.
Who remembers the name of the guy in LA who re-does steering boxes for a better ratio.
Remember reading about him here and didn't write it down... :violent1:
Anybody know who would rebuild the wiper motor or blower fan?
Somehow, it seems originals done by a craftsman would be better than new aftermarket,
Even with little electric motors...
Funny,
There's ONE radiator shop left a couple towns over.
I show up with the re-cored radiator and the one Kurt gave me.
Start explaining to him how we're doing a resto and...
He interrupts with "you want me to move those tabs over, right?"
:laughing7:
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Hector Carrillo
626 488 5472
Steering Gear Rebuild
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Ah, that's it...
Big thanks my brother.
These are the right center caps for a 65 GS?
Also,
Is there a paint code for the center section webs of '65 road wheels?
-Edit-
Dig and ye shall find! :icon_biggrin:
(https://65gs.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5112.0;attach=22437;image)
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Yes. those are correct for '65. They're referred to the 'fat bird' as opposed to the 'thin bird' of 66-67.
You can buy them direct from Mitch Romanski or a vendor such as CARS or others.
EDIT: I should add that Mitch was the guy that initially reproduced these. I can't find his website tho.
CARS has them listed for $189.50/set. Their website isn't function for me (Firefox), you can view their catalog here:
https://oldbuickparts.com/old-buick-parts-catalog/
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Thanks again for all of your help with our project Walt.
I'd inquired to Mitch when i found his info here,
And he sent me to his site: www.buickcenters.com (http://www.buickcenters.com)
It was a few more dollars, but worth it I'll hope.
Not sure if it's the case here,
but with parts for some other cars,
when someone goes to the trouble of re-popping,
and it ends up being successful,
it's not long before their item is copied overseas.
Does anybody know if that's the case with Dan H. a.k.a. BuickGS65?
Inquired about lenses but never heard back.
Saw a ton of super cheap new lenses on ebay,
Likely made overseas.
We don't want to be part of that if we don't have to,
and gladly pay more to support our people and get better parts.
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The front parking lamp lenses and back-up light lenses offered here were a project done by the site founder, Chris, back before 2008. Dan took over ownership of the molds and the production after Chris moved on from his Buick and the site.
Dan has posted that he sold some of the lenses to other vendors, CARS, and I believe BestOfferCounts.
I'm not familiar with other repos avail elsewhere.
Dan has a post on V8 as well, you can try contacting him there, he said he prefers e-mail.
https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/64-65-skylark-gran-sport-and-special-reproduction-lenses-gaskets.315372/page-3 (https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/64-65-skylark-gran-sport-and-special-reproduction-lenses-gaskets.315372/page-3)
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As Walt pointed out, email is best for contacting Dan H. His email is: buickgs65@gmail.com
Loren
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Just realized that the ID plate was never posted here...
Interior code 159 means a saddle interior.
It was mentioned earlier that headliner for a saddle interior was fawn in color?
Actually got ahold of someone at SMS(!)
Said code 159 had a saddle headliner?
They are supposedly sending samples so we will have a look.
Is there somewhere on this site to look these things up?
Digging around i always get distracted... :laughing7:
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I have a 1965 Buick Color & Trim Book. Page 28, Interior Color Coordination- Skylark, trim # 159
Upper Instrument Panel- Saddle
Steering Wheel- Saddle
Carpet- Saddle
Pedals- Black
Headlining- Fawn
Tony :thumbsup:
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Just realized that the ID plate was never posted here...
....
Is there somewhere on this site to look these things up?
Digging around i always get distracted... :laughing7:
There is a cowl plate decoder here:
https://65gs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1965-Buick-VIN-plate.pdf (https://65gs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1965-Buick-VIN-plate.pdf)
Since yours was built in Fremont, Calif, it doesn't include any info as to the options it has. The numbers you have in the ACC block are a manifest number for internal documentation at the Fremont plant, which is long lost.
There is a great '65 Olds 442 site that has some relevant info. Poke around, there is some great stuff there!
www.442bro.com (http://www.442bro.com)
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Ah, man, thanks gentlemen for the wisdom.
I keep saying it, but it's very much appreciated.
That lady at SMS, she was more sure that code 159 had a saddle headliner than I've ever heard anyone more sure of anything before! :icon_salut:
She even refused to send a fawn headliner material sample and instead sent saddle.
That's why they send samples, right?
Being a color-blind guy, good thing I'm married!
My wife gets another chance to be right! :angel4:
Getting a pile of stuff ready to go to powder coat.
Got a new gas tank here, and wondering if it should be done too?
So crusty, it's hard to tell.
Is it supposed to be black?
Almost looks like it stays in galvanize... :icon_scratch:
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Gas tank has a Terne coating, a Tin-Lead material which kinda has a galvanized look.
Clear coating it is prob an option, don't know if there would be adhesion issues tho.
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Hi, heard of many problems with sms .got our interior from ledgendary interior. Jim
-
I've said this before, but it does warrant repeating. Between Legendary and PUI, I prefer Legendary covers and door panels. I have installed both brands and found the Legendary to be made more accurate to the originals.
Loren
-
Ah, man, thanks gentlemen for the wisdom.
I keep saying it, but it's very much appreciated.
That lady at SMS, she was more sure that code 159 had a saddle headliner than I've ever heard anyone more sure of anything before! :icon_salut:
She even refused to send a fawn headliner material sample and instead sent saddle.
That's why they send samples, right?
Being a color-blind guy, good thing I'm married!
My wife gets another chance to be right! :angel4:
Getting a pile of stuff ready to go to powder coat.
Got a new gas tank here, and wondering if it should be done too?
So crusty, it's hard to tell.
Is it supposed to be black?
Almost looks like it stays in galvanize... :icon_scratch:
Here is a picture captured of a page in a 1965 dealer Features and Facts book I have.
Take a look at the "Interior Color Coordination" area. Oh, geez it says a saddle interior has a fawn headliner.
Loren
-
Luckily, our car here is un-restored and has scraps of the interior remaining.
Doing homework, we decided on Legendary, and got their door panels and seat covers.
Had to go directly to them, as resellers like OGPI don't carry saddle.
It took many months, but their stuff came and looks great. :glasses9:
They told me that they are using NOS material that they got in Flint to make the stuff
(crazy as that might sound, you would think it rotten by now).
Legendary sent headliner samples, but admitted they weren't super accurate.
Checking them, this is indeed true.
Supposedly, SMS has the best material, it's just that dealing with them can be painful.
Have a nightmare SMS story involving tens of thousands of dollars and many years I'll withhold telling here.
Suffice it to say they have accurate stuff, but unfortunately, they're the only game in town and they know it. :violent1:
The Saddle samples they send (if they do send samples) we'll just have to compare.
If we need fawn, then I'll order samples for one of these other color codes.
The lady there is a bluebird of golden sunshine and happiness.
Could picture her riding a unicorn. :sunny:
Guess dealing with irate people all day will do that to ya...
My hope is that maybe they have a headliner already in stock and we won't have to be waiting years,
Or calling the credit card company,
Or sending certified letters,
Or...
Otherwise,
We might try one of those Autozone headliners just because it's a cheap experiment.
Sometimes places will surprise you.
So....,
Who has the good carpet?
:dontknow:
-
....
Otherwise,
We might try one of those Autozone headliners just because it's a cheap experiment.
Sometimes places will surprise you.
So....,
Who has the good carpet?
:dontknow:
I took a look on Rockauto, they list a Fawn headliner in a Basket weave pattern (Is that correct?). It's Acme brand. I have no idea of the quality.
For carpet, ACC is pretty good.
ACC carpet is sold by many different vendors, so price and shipping costs vary widely. You can just buy a Chevelle/GTO/etc carpet set for more vendor options. It's a good item to buy locally due to shipping cost.
Trim Parts was also recommended by Jim Weise back in 2014. However I don't see carpet sets listed on their webpage anymore.
-
Thanks again for the info.
Looking again at the color chart Loren posted,
Notice that Saddle isn't an option with Midnight Aqua(!)
Yet, our ID plate says otherwise, and this car is almost certainly unrestored.
Interesting... :confused4:
'gssizzler' posted in my 'new guy' thread the headliner was a tier grain pattern?
Not really sure what that means... :icon_scratch:
Been reaching out to many vendors on the 'Parts Sources' thread:
Had great luck with Mitch Romanawski for center caps.
Horns are off at Gary Stienkellner, and he seems good.
Gas tank mat came from Patton Glade.
It's a nice part, but different that the original (see attached).
Not sure i really care, as you'll never see it.
Lares never answers the phone or e-mail.
No biggie, as Hector Carillo does pumps as well as steering boxes.
He answers the phone and seems like the right guy.
Not a word from Dan H. on lenses.
Messaged him here, on V8, sent emails twice...
Looks like we'll just get some off of ebay.
Was all excited to get a trunk mat from Hill Jenkins Interiors but never heard back.
Same with emblemagic.com; looks like they went the way of the Dodo.
Been really stoked with stuff from CARS.
Next pic - hood insulation in the correct color,
Buick letters for the hood made in USA. :glasses9:
Got emblem inserts, and the emblem itself ready for the chromer.
The hood is officially 'done' save for bodywork and paint... :occasion14:
Same with the rear trunk/tank area.
Backup lights, bumper/bolts, plate bracket, light, tank, straps, pad, filler, cap, etc.
It's all up in the attic and labeled for when the paint dries.
No real work done until this other car is out of my space,
but,
At least a couple of hours every day searching stuff out and following up.
While i haven't gotten everything, the least list is complete.
Once it comes time to really do metalwork and paint/body,
I'll not have time or space (or brain space :laughing1: ) for distractions.
it will be really fun to dig all of this stuff out of the attic and start bolting it on one day.
Seems like 'cart before the horse', but this takes some real digging.
Back to buffing bus doors... Ugh. :icon_puke_r:
-
Hi Steve,
A few comments:
- You are correct about the gas tank mat from Patton Glade. It's different but is never seen. That's what I used.
- Hector rebuilt my steering gear with a quicker ratio. Works great. I asked him to return it without paint and painted it myself.
- Strange that you haven't heard back from Dan H. Hope all is OK in his world.
- I have the reproduction woven trunk mat from Hill Jenkins. It doesn't have the rubber backing that the original did, so I also bought black felt from them and glued it to the back of the mat.
You're making good progress!
Chuck
-
Man, i just love that nerdy stuff you can get new for these cars.
Flap for above the gas filler, even includes the right staples... :glasses9:
-
That's a great find. I wasn't aware those were reproduced!
That should be added to Parts Sources thread!
Chuck
-
Slowly plugging along.
Nothing from SMS for samples or material ordered..
Been tearing apart interior stuff and bagging/tagging.
We'll spare y'all a bunch of pics.
The big factory manuals are great for their detail and old-school line drawings.
-But-
One thing i cannot find after digging and digging...
How does the dang console come free?
Other than the attachment screws in the rear compartment area,
Can't find any more.
Don't want to just go to randomly prying...
Anybody know the secret?
Please and thanks
-
OK, check this out...
Tearing down front seats today right?
Up under one of the bases i found this odd spring.
Not really sure what that is, but wait... :wave:
What's that little folded piece of paper?
Is that what I think it is?? :icon_biggrin:
-
That looks like a door spring.
Nice find with the options paper.
Now to answer your question about taking the console out.
You have to remove the plate that the shift lever slides in. Start by removing the knob. It simply unthreads from the shaft. Put the lever in the middle position and look at the back edge of the plate where the angled area is. There is a round retainer button. Push it in, it has a spring behind it. Push it in enough to lift the back of the shift plate up at an angle. Pull the plate back some and out it comes. There are two large head screws you now have access to. Remove those and the ones in the storage box area. The console should be ready to come out.
Loren
-
Don't know how nerdy you guys are for stuff like this,
But I'm nerdier than nerdy for these things!
How cool is this? :hello2:
Tried to flatten it out a bit - pretty fragile.
Pic with and without flash,
Plus firewall tag.
How to translate these codes, again?
:blob7: :blob7: :blob7:
-
That looks like a door spring.
Nice find with the options paper.
Now to answer your question about taking the console out.
You have to remove the plate that the shift lever slides in. Start by removing the knob. It simply unthreads from the shaft. Put the lever in the middle position and look at the back edge of the plate where the angled area is. There is a round retainer button. Push it in, it has a spring behind it. Push it in enough to lift the back of the shift plate up at an angle. Pull the plate back some and out it comes. There are two large head screws you now have access to. Remove those and the ones in the storage box area. The console should be ready to come out.
Loren
Big thanks my man.
A past version of me would have pried at things until they were never the same again! :laughing7:
Got to get that console free to remove a tach ring... :glasses9:
:cheers2:
-
Take a look in the Assembly Manual for those codes.
I only have a 1966 manual....the first section is 'General Information', there's a 'Buick Sales Code/Accessory Options' list there of the codes. The codes are called 'UPC Group'.
-
Thanks for sharing and taking all of us along on your restoration adventure!! :hello2:
Edouard
-
Take a look in the Assembly Manual for those codes.
I only have a 1966 manual....the first section is 'General Information', there's a 'Buick Sales Code/Accessory Options' list there of the codes. The codes are called 'UPC Group'.
I'm not finding that section in the 65 Assembly Manual. Had high hopes but not finding it.
Chuck
-
Hi ,here would be a few of the codes
-
Excellent... SO stoked. :headbang:
Very happy to share this build with those that can appreciate.
Most ordinary citizens wonder why anyone would mess with an old car.
Some even think it's because i can't afford a new one! :icon_biggrin:
So,
Across the top: 742 44437 2565
The only thing i recognize is the middle - 44437 is the car's ID number.
Anybody know what the 742 or 2565 is?
159 - Presumably saddle interior?
A31 Power Windows
A49 Custom Seat Belts Front
A50 Bucket Seats
B30 Carpets
B54 Custom Pad Cushion - Dash pad?
B93 ?
D31 ?
D?3 - Looks like 33?
D55 Console Shift
M33 Auto Trans
Anybody know the mystery codes?
Nothing we couldn't already tell from carchaeology. :icon_tongue:
What's original to the car matches all of these codes.
There might have been more at the bottom where the paper rotted away.
Like has been said, these were 'Fischer Codes' and pertain to body fittings, but not necessarily mechanical stuff,
So, say, a posi rear end or power brakes might not be found here, correct?
The big thing we were hoping to figure out was if the car had a tilt column or not.
The column having been replaced makes me think tilt because they're more likely to have issues, right?
But,
We might have seen code N33 on this paper, maybe?
Anybody know?
It might have been a body thing...
Think we can safely say the car never had tilt?
Buddy will pop the big $$ for rebuilt tilt off of ebay if we 'have to',
But it's not an option we really want.
Hoping to validate that we shouldn't have tilt.
Humor me!
:icon_biggrin:
-
N33 tilt wheel
-
N33 tilt wheel
That code has been seen written on a piece of paper tucked under a seat?
Anybody ever seen it there?
Or is it only found in the real documentation?
Thats my question.
Sorry if I wasnt clear. :icon_thumright:
-
This was under our seat.jim
-
Here is a Fremont plant Broadcast sheet that was found in a '65 GS.
Loren
-
My Gran Sport was built within a week of this car. Body number is about 380 units after it.
I found and have the same hand written papers with codes.
-
....
159 - Presumably saddle interior?
A31 Power Windows
A49 Custom Seat Belts Front
A50 Bucket Seats
B30 Carpets
B54 Custom Pad Cushion - Dash pad?
B93 ?
D31 ?
D?3 - Looks like 33?
D55 Console Shift
M33 Auto Trans
Anybody know the mystery codes?
....
Checked my 1966 Assembly manual to see what correlates.
Listing your 1965 codes and description for 1966. xxx means that code isn't used in 1966
A31 Power Windows
A49 xxx (1966 Custom Seat Belts = A39)
A50 xxx (1966 Bucket seats= A51)
B30 xxx (1966 Carpet Savers Only= B32)
B54 Custom Padded Cushions, Front= B50, Rear= B52
B93 Door Edge Guards, Installed by Fisher
D31 xxx
D33 Remote Control Outside RR View Mirror
D55 Full Length Console
M33 Transmission ST 300
I would expect a T86 code for Back Up Lights for a 1965, they were standard in 1966, so no code was needed.
Maybe you're missing the rest of the sheet that would show additional options such as Tilt Wheel (N33), Power Steering (N40), Wheels/Deluxe Wheel Covers (P05/P01), Sonomatic Radio (U63). BTW, these are 1966 codes.
-
This was under our seat.jim
Excellent.
Yours must be a Fremont car?
Looks just like mine.
The same person's handwriting it seems.
Here's the translation,
Your car was so equipped?
A31 Power Windows
A49 Custom Seat Belts Front
A50 Bucket Seats
B30 Carpets
B54 Custom Pad Cushion - Dash pad?
C27 Soft Trim Roof Black(?)
C60 Air Conditioning
D55 Console Shift
M33 Auto Trans
PO5 Chrome Plated Wheels - Does this mean Road Wheels?
W15 Gran Sport? Huh? :icon_scratch:
Did your car come with a tilt wheel?
Still trying to figure out if this "Fischer Body Cheat Sheet" had everything,
Or if it was just for body-specific stuff.
If it was just body-related options,
The wheels being listed doesn't make sense.
Unless the people doing the body had to include a different spare or something...?
-
My Gran Sport was built within a week of this car. Body number is about 380 units after it.
I found and have the same hand written papers with codes.
Pics or it didn't happen! :icon_biggrin:
-
....
159 - Presumably saddle interior?
A31 Power Windows
A49 Custom Seat Belts Front
A50 Bucket Seats
B30 Carpets
B54 Custom Pad Cushion - Dash pad?
B93 ?
D31 ?
D?3 - Looks like 33?
D55 Console Shift
M33 Auto Trans
Anybody know the mystery codes?
....
Checked my 1966 Assembly manual to see what correlates.
Listing your 1965 codes and description for 1966. xxx means that code isn't used in 1966
A31 Power Windows
A49 xxx (1966 Custom Seat Belts = A39)
A50 xxx (1966 Bucket seats= A51)
B30 xxx (1966 Carpet Savers Only= B32)
B54 Custom Padded Cushions, Front= B50, Rear= B52
B93 Door Edge Guards, Installed by Fisher
D31 xxx
D33 Remote Control Outside RR View Mirror
D55 Full Length Console
M33 Transmission ST 300
I would expect a T86 code for Back Up Lights for a 1965, they were standard in 1966, so no code was needed.
Maybe you're missing the rest of the sheet that would show additional options such as Tilt Wheel (N33), Power Steering (N40), Wheels/Deluxe Wheel Covers (P05/P01), Sonomatic Radio (U63). BTW, these are 1966 codes.
Sweet! Filling in the blanks..
D33
Our car for sure came with the remote mirror,
A body-specific option for sure.
B93
Don't know what door edge guards would look like,
Presumably a strip at the back edge of the door,
Or maybe a rub strip in the middle?
No evidence of either, but we have had a re-spray.
My car has power steering now, and it looks factory installed,
But the column was changed so anything is possible.
There were deluxe wheel covers found.
Not that they couldn't have been added,
But their condition seemed to indicate otherwise.
Backup lights were found. Very old and beaten - likely OG.
Car also has the radio. Looks original. Same age as the rest of the dash.
There may be more of my sheet rotten away and lost to time.
Interesting how it was alphabetical as it goes along.
Mine goes up into M33 before it's rotten away,
So, those higher letters above 'M' could be missing.
There are things on our car that aren't on the 'Cheat Sheet'.
Stuff in the lower letters like F35 HD Frame and F40 HD Suspension.
Lower than M, so should be there.
Those aren't body specific.
If power steering and power brakes used the same body stamping then Fischer might not have cared,
And not included them on the cheat sheet?
Notice Jim's Cheat Sheet doesn't include things all GSs had - like HD battery and HD radiator.
Very interesting. Love this stuff!
Could see this being a handy thing they had taped to the side of the car during interior assembly.
A quick reference for the people along the later portion of the line,
To make sure interior parts got installed correctly.
So many options during those days,
Keeping track must have been quite the issue.
-
Thanks to Loren i got the console apart.
Grateful for the help.
Might have been one to pry things all mangled.
Luckily, another guy like my younger self was never in there before! :icon_tongue:
Here's hoping the chromer can preserve all of those cool texture details on top of that console.
Going to take skill for sure.
So many times, they buff them away...
Love the date stamp under there. :glasses9:
Shifter knob goes to the chromer,
But how to remove the plastic center?
Might as well do some prying! :angel4:
It can be glued if something breaks, right?
Check this out...
Could it be that Mother Buick was the one to have glued this in before?
I'm thinking so.
-
Do they all have a date stamp there?
-
Check this out...
Could it be that Mother Buick was the one to have glued this in before?
I'm thinking so.
It looks exactly like one of that I have. Same looking glue.
Loren
-
Heard back from SMS!
They sent samples.
This is where a color-blind guy has to really trust others. :icon_salut:
Fresh piece of carpet was cut from under the console where it got no sun.
Washing it up good, it's pretty obvious which one.
E for the win. SMS calls that 'Dark Saddle'.
As for the headliner
The light color B is it for sure.
Is that color what they call 'Fawn'?
A and C are both 'Saddle', right?
The SMS invoice lists the color as H-715 'Dove' tier?
So, there was a Saddle interior with a Dove headliner?
While anything is possible 60 years later,
It would -really- surprise me if the headliner wasn't original to the car.
SMS says it will take two weeks for us to get our carpet and headliner...
We send in the old sun visors to get re-covered in that same Fawn (Dove?) tier grain vinyl.
And that will take a month..... But they will be exactly like originals......
Supposedly....
-Very- cautiously optimistic......
The story is that they're very responsive and helpful right up until they run your card.
-
Looks like a good match for both the headliner and the carpet. SMS is really proud of the carpet price but then they do have to make a mark up over the ACC carpet that they are just reselling to a customer. lol ACC is the main manufacturer of auto carpets. So many sources for them.
Loren
-
Ah, dag... Live and learn, i guess.
SMS has such the reputation for being the best quality,
I figured their carpets were part of that.
Maybe it's just 'sweet lemons' when the stuff is so hard to get! :icon_biggrin:
Having them do the sun visors to match seemed the only choice to get them right.
Scary to put them in a box and send them possibly onto oblivion!
-
Time to get caught up a bit..
Been getting things rounded up for when the big teardown day comes.
Some pieces, they aren't available unless someone digs deep into their stash.
Here, Loren did us a solid by providing a tach and couple other things.
Rare big-block steering coupler, GS emblem, plus the round Buick emblem.
Chrome shop would remove those nice rib details during re-chrome.
Best to just find a nice original.
Loren tipped us off to an NOS plastic emblem insert thanks to Kurt,
Also found here on this fine forum!
Check out those bright colors.
:icon_biggrin:
So,
Yeah,
Little detail stuff to be sure,
But all part of the process!
Much thanks gentlemen. Takes a village.
-
Thanks for the update! Indeed, you need to acquire all the pieces needed to put the car back together. No time like the present! :thumbsup:
Edouard
-
You are making good progress!
-
Thanks, gents.
I keep saying it, but we'll have some real progress here soon.
Car pushed around to the work area.
Buddy's friend had to help as it's getting muddy!
Parts car delivered to the house here.
Will do some teardown once i make room for the stuff to land!
-
Carpets from SMS (PPI) look good.
Same with headliner material.
Crazy how light the stuff once was!
Sending the sun visors to SMS for a re-do.
At over $500 they better be nice. :angryfire:
Now my anal anality is festering!
What to do about the little shiny corner pieces on the sun visors?
Can't have them all rusty crusty next to new fawn tier vinyl! :tard:
Anybody know if/who makes those little parts?
Is it possible that anyone else cares?
-
Those used to be available from Year One. I looked at Fusick, Ames and TPP but wasn't able to find them at those vendors.
After another internet search, I came across the following on this link.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/130918498550?_skw=Inside+Sunvisor+stainless+Trim&itmmeta=01JDHV65RW9QFJ6X7ESDHXHZ31&hash=item1e7b59c0f6:g:2ukAAOSwbdpWYyHE&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmov1ONFG4pjFciUXxcGnjcRSYxmpg9HcI3veP7KGOyJx6e2IIZupMOiu6ZmlZ%2B2%2FLgKwm4qejctF61CfuFEvzMQpi7XdOiL3hpjdUKfJ%2BoK7DD6jBeDeBYuGxsrpQdoI4Se60UwskpQ0m4iXSm0bD7GdlfBYlTiD6Y%2FtiGb%2FsxYUCM3FP3%2BRS30yzg2a%2BtjqGUmQuS916Mqa90hw%2FZQ3HSLglYWNG5kCoddhVpXBtqX4EqtY2SvSzhZ84EGOXoQGf0OwxJmQhOQo%2Bb%2BX88PRbP3apxh3xp5QT4cXuk9Gon3qa0YA4afyCb5LSdxZTGY%2B0%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8TcmLvsZA (https://www.ebay.com/itm/130918498550?_skw=Inside+Sunvisor+stainless+Trim&itmmeta=01JDHV65RW9QFJ6X7ESDHXHZ31&hash=item1e7b59c0f6:g:2ukAAOSwbdpWYyHE&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmov1ONFG4pjFciUXxcGnjcRSYxmpg9HcI3veP7KGOyJx6e2IIZupMOiu6ZmlZ%2B2%2FLgKwm4qejctF61CfuFEvzMQpi7XdOiL3hpjdUKfJ%2BoK7DD6jBeDeBYuGxsrpQdoI4Se60UwskpQ0m4iXSm0bD7GdlfBYlTiD6Y%2FtiGb%2FsxYUCM3FP3%2BRS30yzg2a%2BtjqGUmQuS916Mqa90hw%2FZQ3HSLglYWNG5kCoddhVpXBtqX4EqtY2SvSzhZ84EGOXoQGf0OwxJmQhOQo%2Bb%2BX88PRbP3apxh3xp5QT4cXuk9Gon3qa0YA4afyCb5LSdxZTGY%2B0%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8TcmLvsZA)
Loren
-
Nice!
Don't know how you do it.
I'd looked and looked!
Thanks again Loren.
-
You are welcome.
Parts are getting so much more difficult to find. Google has become a friend. lol
Loren
-
OPGI has visors. I purchased a pair a few years ago and they match my originals.
-
Thanks for the tip, Jim.
Ours are Dove and hence have to be made.
Like that price? $495! :crybaby2:
Starting their journey into the abyss...!
SMS says 3-6 weeks.
3-6 months is my guess.
After you call the credit card company...
Bye little guys... Hope to see you again one day!
*sniff*
-
Here's a specialist question for y'all..
The Skylark parts car has that cool tinted green glass.
Seems a nice whole set. In better shape than the GS.
Because our original build specs are unknown and Buddy likes the look,
The tinted glass would have been an appropriate available option with the GS, right?
Said another way,
A GS didn't necessarily come with clear glass, did it?
-
Parts hunting is funny.
Trickier than i first thought since we want this car correct.
Take the courtesy lights for example.
OPGI and Fusick both seem to have the same ribbed light.
While our originals are smooth.
Looks like one of those cases where we're going to pay the chromer to re-do the originals.
Maybe we'll have to buy a re-pop to get a good set of parts or lenses?
Hopefully they all play together.
See also sun visor mounts.
Fusick costs a little over twice as much as OPGI.
Because a set of crappy re-pop anything pisses me off,
Fragile and breaks, doesn't fit, chrome fails after a year...
I'll buy the one that costs twice as much every time.
Problem is,
Erm,
They're both the same exact product made the same place, right?
:angry9:
Now, we're also looking for a rear-view mirror.
Anybody got one?
They make the stalk so we just need the mirror body part itself.
Was going to disassemble and send the mirror glass for re-silvering,
Polish the body,
But the day/night cam won't stay in place.
Probably not fixable...
-
Dear Clatter and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
The Skylark parts car has that cool tinted green glass.
Seems a nice whole set. In better shape than the GS.
Because our original build specs are unknown and Buddy likes the look,
The tinted glass would have been an appropriate available option with the GS, right?
Said another way,
A GS didn't necessarily come with clear glass, did it?
I'm well out of my league so hopefully the real 1965 GS experts will soon chime in. Back in 2012, I got the windshield and tailgate glass for my trusty wagon from Pilkington Classics. I just tried to find their website and classic cars isn't mentioned. The closest I could find was a phone number and email that you can reach at this webpage:
https://www.pilkington.com/en/us/contacts/automotive (https://www.pilkington.com/en/us/contacts/automotive)
Much more ominous is a reference to Nippon Sheet Glass Co., Ltd at the bottom of the webpage. Has Pilkington been bought out? Anybody know?
Now, we're also looking for a rear-view mirror.
Anybody got one?
Not to belittle a reparable OEM mirror, but at least OPGI sells a reproduction:
https://www.opgi.com/mirrors-hardware/inside-rearview-mirrors/inside-rearview-mirrors3/mirror-inside-10-with-black-twist-knob-1964-66-a-body-CH97033.html (https://www.opgi.com/mirrors-hardware/inside-rearview-mirrors/inside-rearview-mirrors3/mirror-inside-10-with-black-twist-knob-1964-66-a-body-CH97033.html)
Can you believe it? OPGI claims that this is the paragon of quality and accuracy . . . . (https://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/rolleyes.gif)
Once more, what is the opinion of the 65GS.com community on this claim? :dontknow:
Edouard
-
Steve,
Tinted glass was an option on the 65 GS. The car I restored didn't have AC and had clear glass. I retrofitted factory AC during the restoration and replaced the glass with tinted and date coded SoftRay glass. Perfectly correct.
I have a couple of nice mirror bodies and a resilvered mirror available. I was going to install the mirror into one of the bodies, but the silvering is so delicate I was afraid to damage it. If you want to try your hand at it, send me a PM.
And the OPGI mirror that Edouard linked to is a nice part but not correct. 1965 Skylarks had an 8" mirror, not 10". I had a 10" in mine for awhile and it didn't cause any deduction in judging. Lucky to have judges that didn't know or didn't care, I guess. The mirror bodies and glass I have available are 8" and correct.
Chuck
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Chuck is very correct on all the points.
I found it interesting that ordering AC, didn't mean tinted glass was an automatic addition. Tinted glass had to be ordered separately at additional cost. Also, tinted glass could be ordered on non-AC cars. Oh, there was also a bulletin about the add on air not being used in a GS. After having that add-on AC system on a parts car, I could see that there is not enough room under the dash for both the AC and a console [automatic or manual].
Another thing, this one I don't quite understand is that the original specs for the Gran Sport says that bucket seats were part of the GS package but every original sales paper I've seen, there is a charge for the bucket seats. Must have been a way for the dealers to make a few extra few bucks. :icon_biggrin: lol
Loren
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Thanks Chuck and Loren for satisfying my curiosity! :hello2:
After all, even on Thanksgiving, one does not live by turkey alone!
Edouard
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Tri-five visor trim that Loren found showed up.
Parts are a -little- bigger than OG.
Slight difference.
Not going to bother me... :icon_thumright:
FYI.
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Thanks to Chuck for the mirror,
It's added to the boxes in the attic for that one day when we start putting things together.
In the meantime,
We got some stuff taken apart! :laughing7:
Because the Martins do hot-rod stuff mostly...
Want to check details on correct OG motor painting.
Were the assembled engines painted in their entirety after assembly?
Or were the castings painted, then assembled afterwards?
Say, freeze plugs showing as zinc or painted over in green?
How about head bolts and the like?
Metal finished or painted after assembly?
I'm tempted to blow this engine apart, tank everything and shoot it in real car paint in a booth.
Blasted, epoxy base coat, etc.
Like they did here:
Pretty sure you all have seen this, right?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0be_NBYPCNk (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0be_NBYPCNk)
Get everything clean and inspected, fasteners plated, etc. etc.
Deliver the stuff ready for assembly.
But the Martins are supposedly the best and want the thing delivered assembled,
And Buddy wants the pros to do what the pros do.
Any of you guys have experience here?
Hard for me to relinquish control! :BangHead:
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....
Were the assembled engines painted in their entirety after assembly?
....
Yes, they were painted after assembly.
I'll start. I'm not 100% sure on the following tho. Looking for verification from others.
Intake manifold was in place, as a portion of the valley cover did not receive paint.
I think distributor was installed, but I'm not sure on that. It may have been partially masked during engine painting.
Same for fuel pump... it may have been partly masked off for painting.
The alternator bracket is installed later. The aluminum bracket is unpainted. Lower steel bracket can be black or unpainted. Upper steel bracket I've seen black or engine color.
Power steering bracket is engine color. I believe it was installed after assembly/painting.
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....
Were the assembled engines painted in their entirety after assembly?
....
Yes, they were painted after assembly.
I'll start. I'm not 100% sure on the following tho. Looking for verification from others.
Intake manifold was in place, as a portion of the valley cover did not receive paint.
I think distributor was installed, but I'm not sure on that. It may have been partially masked during engine painting.
Same for fuel pump... it may have been partly masked off for painting.
The alternator bracket is installed later. The aluminum bracket is unpainted. Lower steel bracket can be black or unpainted. Upper steel bracket I've seen black or engine color.
Power steering bracket is engine color. I believe it was installed after assembly/painting.
Big thanks Walt.
Vaguely remember seeing a thread about this stuff somewhere here... :icon_scratch:
Might have to try some carchaeology...
Perhaps there is some original paint hidden under the rainbow.
Maybe with a careful application of paint stripper we might discover original finishes?
Because info on Fremont cars is a bit thinner perhaps,
And they did seem to do things differently at times.
Really good to know that engines were shot fasteners in place and all.
That will be easier for the Martins vs. some of the show-detailed street rod motors they do.
Engine detailing can be the funnest part of the whole build! :angel4:
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Something else only an expert would know...
These rivets that hold the body tag to the firewall.
Guessing they're some kind of special tamper-proof original items.
Anywhere to get repops or new?
Our tag has a couple coats of paint, a small tear, etc.
Plus, the whole shell is getting blasted.
It will need restored. What is the correct finish?
Don't want to just use regular pop-rivets putting it back on.
It would be unfortunate to leave in place, but if it's what we have to do...
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Something else only an expert would know...
These rivets that hold the body tag to the firewall.
Guessing they're some kind of special tamper-proof original items.
Anywhere to get repops or new?
Our tag has a couple coats of paint, a small tear, etc.
Plus, the whole shell is getting blasted.
It will need restored. What is the correct finish?
Don't want to just use regular pop-rivets putting it back on.
It would be unfortunate to leave in place, but if it's what we have to do...
Here's a link to eBay listings for correct rivets.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=cowl+tag+rivet&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=cowl+tag+rivet&_sacat=0)
Loren
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Something else only an expert would know...
These rivets that hold the body tag to the firewall.
Guessing they're some kind of special tamper-proof original items.
Anywhere to get repops or new?
Our tag has a couple coats of paint, a small tear, etc.
Plus, the whole shell is getting blasted.
It will need restored. What is the correct finish?
Don't want to just use regular pop-rivets putting it back on.
It would be unfortunate to leave in place, but if it's what we have to do...
Here's a link to eBay listings for correct rivets.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=cowl+tag+rivet&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=cowl+tag+rivet&_sacat=0)
Loren
POW! Just like that.
Magic!
A billion thanks.
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Merry Christmas everyone!
All i want for Christmas is my back to stop hurting! :cheers2:
Been getting things ready to send off to their respective experts.
Motor mounts to Steele, Steering stuff to Hector Carillo.
Brake booster and master are going to Karp's in LA.
Silly to mess with a single-circuit master, but we're doing a resto.
If someone could take a peek at my pic please - that's the right master?
Hate to send the wrong one off for rebuilding!
Also, the word 'reman' is stamped onto the booster.
See also numbers in pic.
Is that the right booster?
Some kind of aftermarket replacement?
There were also the mount brackets, with serrated nuts on everything.
I'm guessing somebody's been in there.
Those are correct?
Karp's does yellow zinc.
Looks like the hood latch was finished that way?
Same with the booster mount brackets?
Maybe send it all in so it matches..?
What else besides the master cap, booster, brackets and hood latch are yellow zinc?
Did anyone ever put together a list of correct finishes for parts?
Again, I'm vaguely remembering something but can't remember where... :laughing1:
Big thanks guys for all of the help gentlemen.
Thanks Chuck for the nice mirror.
Walt, Loren, really really appreciate your help.
Knowing the right thing to do is the hardest part.
Wouldn't have a prayer otherwise! :angel4:
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Hi Steve,
Merry Christmas! Hope your back got a day off.
I'm not an expert on the boosters, but if it says Reman, then I'm pretty sure it's not original. But that said, if it came off the car then it should work. If you're planning to subject the car to 400 point judging the Remfg stamp might be a flag, but I doubt it. A word of caution on replating. I was told that any rusty spots or pitting will be amplified after plating. So be sure to have a booster with the best condition of the front plate to start with.
The master cylinder is not original. They were made by AC Delco. Pictures of the original on my car are attached. Note the location of the bleeder on the unit. Aftermarket units have bleeders in other locations. Having said that, I'm aware of other cars having been judged with aftermarket master cylinders and there were no points deducted. Note that originals are very hard to find.
So, even if you plan to have the car judged, I doubt that either of the parts on your car would be a detraction.
For plating, you don't want Yellow Zinc. You want Zinc Dichromate or as some of my old school friends call it, Gold Irridite. They are very different in color and in corrosion resistance. Yellow zinc will look yellow. Zinc dichromate will look iridescent gold in color. Parts to be plated in this way are vacuum booster face, master cylinder cap, hood latch, headlight buckets, parking light housings and backup light housings. I believe that's a complete list.
Good luck with this part of the restoration!
Chuck
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PS: If installing an original type Littelfuse horn relay, the stamped cover can be either clear zinc or zinc dichromate. I had mine plated clear zinc and then bought an NOS piece and found it to be zinc dichromate plated. Either is viewed as correct and show well.
Pictures attached.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Whoo! Super good information there Chuck.
Exactly what we like to know.
Now on a quest for the correct booster to have rebuilt.
Anybody got one to sell? :icon_biggrin:
Looks like our parts car might have a master core.
Talking to my usual rebuilder here Karps,
They only do zinc because of California laws.
Who does zinc dichromate/gold irridite?
Getting a box ready with everything... :thumbsup:
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Been chipping away at it, albeit slowly.
Since the rad support needed so much work i had it blasted.
Gave it a phosphate coat and it's ready for some welding patch work.
Disassembling interior has been an adventure.
The level of detailed craftsmanship here is amazing.
SO many little bits went into place to make these cars what they were.
Because this one is still (mostly) untouched, I'm doing everything possible to be able to replicate the original in every way.
Every bit of each step gets pics taken.
Let's take a minute for us old guys to appreciate digital photography.
Think how much it woulda cost to have ALL of that film developed! :glasses9:
Little clips and small pieces of vinyl glued in under the door panels...
Thin layer of foam all along the leading edge of the rear package tray under the vinyl...
Things like that. Just crazy.
Found some places where original paint was preserved.
Midnight Aqua is such the perfect color!
Dig how much flake was in the factory paint.
Here's hoping the good folks at Glasurit get that 100%! :sunny:
So, here's my latest conundrum.
Reaching out for help from y'all (again). :icon_salut:
Tearing down doors - removing power window mechanisms.
Old factory manual is more than a little confusing.
The window has to be raised and lowered just so in order to access fasteners and get glass free.
OK to jumper window motors out with a 12v battery?
Motors only have two terminals, so up/down is just reversing polarity?
One was taken apart by a PO and adjustments/fasteners scattered.
I'm suspecting a bad motor.
Is there a way to get things apart without being able to run the motor?
SO many adjustments and details to these doors and windows.
Super intimidating...
Once all this glass is out,
Body can go onto the rotisserie.
Almost ready for this build to get interesting! :evil6:
As always,
Big big thanks for the assistance gentlemen.
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Whoo! Super good information there Chuck.
Exactly what we like to know.
Now on a quest for the correct booster to have rebuilt.
Anybody got one to sell? :icon_biggrin:
Looks like our parts car might have a master core.
Talking to my usual rebuilder here Karps,
They only do zinc because of California laws.
Who does zinc dichromate/gold irridite?
Getting a box ready with everything... :thumbsup:
Check out these guys. They rebuilt my booster and I'm sure have capability to do zinc dichromate plating.
https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/ (https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/)
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Whoo! Super good information there Chuck.
Exactly what we like to know.
Now on a quest for the correct booster to have rebuilt.
Anybody got one to sell? :icon_biggrin:
Looks like our parts car might have a master core.
Talking to my usual rebuilder here Karps,
They only do zinc because of California laws.
Who does zinc dichromate/gold irridite?
Getting a box ready with everything... :thumbsup:
Check out these guys. They rebuilt my booster and I'm sure have capability to do zinc dichromate plating.
https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/ (https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/)
Hot tip!
Called them today and it seems like they can totally help me out.
They also might have the right booster core for us as well.
Super stoked to have your help with this stuff.
Thanks again.
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Loren might have some brake boosters.
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Thanks for the tip, Jim.
I'm trying to not just immediately message Loren every time we need parts! :icon_biggrin:
Some stuff has been happening.
486-mile, 12-hour road trip adventure.
Got the Transmission to Santa Rosa Hydromatic.
Steve there is an old guy like us and seems the perfect person to go through the ST300.
He even had a couple of cores for parts if needed.
Supposedly, it was "just rebuilt", but you know how that can go...
Engine got to the Martins at Centerville Auto.
First thing we saw was the boneyard.
Makes a guy nervous tell you what!! :confused4:
Best find out your numbers-matching block is OK before spending a grip on doodads!
It was killing us to know if this motor was any good!
Matt pulled a head off straight after we got there.
We knew right then we came to the right place.
The heads seemed decent, luckily no seats installed, not too much already cut.
Pistons were OE, with a ridge ream and hone done.
How well remains to be seen, but a good sign, nonetheless.
Next day i got some pics from Matt showing a few issues.
Check out the JB Weld sculpture inside the timing cover.
Rear main seal surface was rough enough to eat the seal.
Apparently, the crank was rough all the way around.
Just turning it over had already scored bearings.
It was great to meet Russ and Matt.
Couple of classic characters to be sure!
Very glad to have this engine in their hands.
There was a real temptation to just try and start it,
Because it was supposedly rebuilt and ready to go.
Came with oil in it already even, supposedly only needed primed and lit off!
Lots of ways to go about these things...
One man's rebuild is another man's core! :angel4:
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Dear Clatter and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Thanks for sharing your travelogue! You have indeed visited some shops that are kind of "sacred" in the world nailheads and Buicks.
Glad that you feel in good hands!
Keep those stories coming!
Edouard
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Got after it a few more times...
Rotisserie is here and stashed away under the car.
(Nowhere else to keep it :icon_biggrin: )
Almost ready to pull the body!
The plan is for it to go to Meclec in Fresno.
They're reportedly able to blast big panels without destroying them in the process.
Stripping down doors was an interesting adventure.
Used my kid's motorcycle battery to jumper out window motors,
get them up/down and apart.
Somebody had obviously been in there,
Somebody akin to my 16-year-old self. :evil6:
Didn't have a manual, patience or any common sense! :angry5:
Driver's side front regulator linkage was all bent up and scraping/grinding against itself.
Motor got worked good no doubt.
Considering how bad that linkage was, it fought valiantly.
Right rear quarter window bottom of the frame is broken off.
Looking in there, a row of Bondo worms poking thru tells the story.
Quarter caved in and broke the frame, but they never fixed it.
See also roller posts bent and caddy-wompus.
A bunch of them were like that.
The left rear quarter stuff had been disassembled and parts lost.
Window doesn't want to go all the way up,
Plan on bench-testing it today.
Between all of them, I can forensically piece together how it's all -supposed- to go.
So,
Two questions for our esteemed experts (OK, maybe three :angel4: )...
We have a parts car with manual windows.
Any chance the rear window frame is the same piece as with power windows?
Would love to know before tearing the whole rear corner apart.
Anybody got a good driver's side front power window linkage/motor to sell us?
Anybody sell those rollers/posts?
Is messing with these window motors a good idea?
Maybe there's a guy out there who goes through these?
Saw that spring, and how these are pressed together,
And it's quite intimidating.
Better to just leave well enough alone?
Those motors -seem- pretty robust.
Rollers not so much,,. :evil6:
As always, thanks for your time and expertise gentlemen.
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But wait, there's more! :icon_biggrin:
Check out the numbers inked under the door skin.
Think that's a replacement skin,
Or is that factory?
Also,
How to interpret date stamps?
Is there a thread on these?
This one is on the passenger door.
Lastly,
Anybody know the correct color for the engine mount adaptor plates?
Can't help but think this blue color ain't it...
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Can't help with many of the questions. But the adapter plates were bare cast iron. I painted mine cast blast gray. The engine mount plates on the engine cradle also.
Good luck!
Chuck
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I think the use of the motorcycle battery is a fantastic idea. I've resorted to a heavy automotive battery in the past. Thanks for the idea.
As I responded in our text messages, it will be April before i am back in Nebraska to check on the window regulator. I bought some power window parts form our late GS buddy Dan A at the GS Nationals a couple of years ago. He twisted my arm till I finally said yes. lol
Oh, just another thought about the regulator. The arm parts of the assembly should be the same between the manual and the power.
As for the right rear window frame, it is common to both the power and manual window set ups. Depending on whether you are concerned about date codes matching and that the glass is the same. By that I mean, clear vs tinted.
The track parts for the windows are the same also between power and manual. So, if you find damaged pieces, you can salvage them from your parts car if it a hardtop also. The rear window track pieces are "body style specific". The front doors use the same for the hardtop and convertible. The post body is specific, I think... but can't say 100%. Maybe crosses over from four door sedan?
As for the motors, they can be removed and cleaned of the old grease, then re-grease it. Yes, the spring can be dangerous! It can bite you real quick. Run the assembly to the point that the tension is off the spring. That will make things more manageable.
Don't have an answer for the rollers. That will take a bit of research. They are available.
I'm leaning towards that being a replacement skin from GM but can't say 100% for sure. I've not been a follower of date stamps. Maybe someone else has knowledge here on this subject?
Chuck has you covered on the engine and frame plates. I did the same thing with my car some 35 years ago.
Loren
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Man, I really appreciate the help, guys.
Looks like I got a big tear-down session with that Skylark.
The thought was to put the marginal things in place to keep it more or less complete,
But that's looking like a LOT of work for little gain at this point.
Shame, because it's a pretty cool car, actually.
So,
In speaking to Matt Martin,
Talking about what was originally painted what colors and where.
He indicated that the engines were painted at the factory pretty much fully assembled.
Said how they got that green overspray everywhere!
He of anyone should know.
Also said it was hard to bring himself to do such sloppy work...
I was trying to talk him into it.
Is there a thread or any pictures of the factory's sloppy overspray?
There are other restorations where they will re-create that,
And I'm fully game for this kind of thing.
Don't want the car to be "over-restored"! :angel4:
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Dear Clatter and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Man, I really appreciate the help, guys.
Well thank you for taking us along on your journey!
In speaking to Matt Martin,
Talking about what was originally painted what colors and where.
He indicated that the engines were painted at the factory pretty much fully assembled.
Said how they got that green overspray everywhere!
He of anyone should know.
Also said it was hard to bring himself to do such sloppy work...
I was trying to talk him into it.
Is there a thread or any pictures of the factory's sloppy overspray?
. . . .
Don't want the car to be "over-restored"! :angel4:
You will need to wait for the true experts to chime in on the topic, but my instinct would be that beauty would win out over authentic factory sloppiness - at least when it came to having the car judged.
From a totally different hobby, I ran into something of a similar problem when I decided to create a model railroad based on the Pickering Lumber Company. Harvesting trees before World War II was a dirty and nasty business, and the equipment used was worn and beaten up. I just couldn't bring myself to reproduce that beaten-up look after all that effort to build a good-looking model. It bothered me so much that I changed my model railroad from actually modeling the lumber industry to being a tourist railroad based on the Pickering Lumber Company. That way I could have my beautiful models and have an explanation for why they looked so sharp.
I don't have an equivalent suggestion for your case. However, I'm sure the owners of award winning 1965 Gran Sports will have something to say to help you decide.
Edouard
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I've never heard of engine paint overspray except on the fuel pump. It was my understanding that the engine was painted with the following installed. AC bracket, power steering bracket, and upper alternator bracket (on non-AC cars). Also coolant crossover and thermostat housing, fuel filter bracket, harmonic balancer, valley pan, and rocker covers (if stamped steel, not aluminum). The fuel pump was assembled, but not painted, just overspray from painting the block and timing cover around it. I painted the intake manifold separately and installed it after painting the engine. I painted the valley pan, balancer, crossover and Tstat housing before assembling them. Then they got another coat while painting the engine. Pictures attached.
Others feel free to share other opinions.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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More pictures...
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Nice! Thanks again as always Chuck.
Matt mentioned even some overspray on the distributor?
Any of you guys see a distributor with some overspray?
-
The distributor had a small amount of overspray.
The fuel pump was partially covered with a cup/mask so it also had some overspray on it.
Tom T.
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Still plugging along.
I tend to jump around a bit...
Center console is the highlight of the interior.
Very difficult to re-chrome well.
For this reason, we're considering sending it to Sherm's in Sac.
Those teeny-weeny ribs get the pot-metal popping little corrosion pits underneath.
And there's not a lot a chromer can really do about it.
We're sending it off to them to get it stripped at least and see.
Maybe the emblems as well because Sherm's is the best of the best.
Won't even say what they quoted these parts at.
Obscene.
Going to be the single most expensive part of the car yet by far.
So.... Another question.
Since the shifter shaft is right next to the console and chrome.
And has a chrome button...
And they're both all pitted out...
How would you guys go about extracting that button/guts/spring from inside there?
It's been entombed. Welded into place forevermore.
Wondering how on earth it was even made...
I could cut the welds at the bottom, and also destroy the pivot pin,
Make up another on the lathe and welding it all back together afterwards,
But then there's this pin sticking out the side...... :icon_scratch:
Maybe just cut the whole shaft in half right below where the chrome stops?
Then, I'd have to veeery carefully weld it back together without fouling the spring or pin inside...
Ugh.
Any of you guys cross this bridge before?
Wondering about getting another,
Sectioning one the one way and the other another to join later?
Make something from scratch?
Any of you guys cross this bridge?
Can't have a tatty shifter shaft after getting the console done...
:angel4:
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Following up at powerbrakeboosters.com
They said they might have a master or booster core for us but no such luck.
Any chance one of you fine gentlemen has an original booster core to sell?
Maybe someone who upgraded to a dual-circuit master has the old one lying about?
One man's junk is another man's garbage! :icon_biggrin:
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Been pretty hard at it lately.
Other distractions finally out of the way for a while..
Got the rotisserie and engine hoist all sussed out.
Cheapo casters that fold over when loaded have been replaced.
Rusty/crusty rotisserie got grease zerks installed into the casters, so they (actually) turn and roll.
Eventually we got it onto there!
Once my kid helps me move that hood we'll flip it over! :icon_biggrin:
So,
Looking at the stampings on windows,
I'm getting mixed results comparing the two cars,
But also, windows on the same cars?
Was there ever a how-to article on window date stamps?
As always, appreciate the wisdom, gentlemen.
Hope to have some real progress to report soon!
-
Oh, and, another dumb question...
Label thing on the door jamb - up high.
Looks like one of those press label makers from back in the day.
Any chance that was factory?
Or maybe at least done by the dealer, or?
Wasn't guessing so,
But thought I'd ask..
-
Anyone (Chuck? :icon_biggrin:) know if this master might be correct?
Doesn't have the bleeder on the side, but a Delco... :dontknow:
-
Thanks for the update!
Sorry that I don't know the answer to your questions, but your efforts are definitely very inspiring! :angel4:
Edouard
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Sorry Steve. I don't think that master cylinder is correct. I know that other variations of aftermarket brands have passed judging with flying colors in addition to the correct Delco part. But with the side exit to the brake lines I wouldn't take a chance. The correct MC had the exit straight out the front. And I don't know if it's for power or manual brakes.
Others might have more info. Good luck with your search!
Chuck
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Hi, this is our gs, I have some brake setups from other models that match yours .jim
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Window date codes.....
Here ya go, copied from the following GTO site:
http://www.iegtoclub.com/Tech%20Lib/window_lof_codes.htm (http://www.iegtoclub.com/Tech%20Lib/window_lof_codes.htm)
>>>>
The following is the decoding for LOF (Libby) Owens Ford) glass from 1963 thru 1972. The location of the codes vary with each piece, just look for the LOF symbol. Generally all of the side glass had the same date, about 60 days before build, and the windshield was 30 days or less from build.
L-O-F: Libby Owens Ford Manufacturer
AS: American Standards Association of Classification
AS1: Windshield Glass
AS2: Body Glass
M54: Manufacturer's Model Number
SOFT-RAY: Tinted
MONTH YEAR
N January C 1963
X February G 1964
L March J 1965
G April A 1966
J May Z 1967
I June X 1968
U July V 1969
T August T 1970
A September N 1971
Y October Y 1972
C November
V December
Example: A code of XJ would be February, 1965.
A code of CA would be November, 1966.
<<<<<
And a VERY in-depth explanation on the glass and codes:
http://www.camaros.org/glass.shtml (http://www.camaros.org/glass.shtml)
There is a lot of fascinating info on that site, check the 'CRG Research' section. Sure it's a Camaro site, but many of the processes were used on our Buicks.
Here's the engine assembly process, describes the engine painting process which you asked about.
http://www.camaros.org/flintV8.shtml (http://www.camaros.org/flintV8.shtml)
And this is the body and assembly line process. It'll help you understand the order of operations as far as primers, sealers, and paint:
http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml (http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml)
Enjoy!
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Wow. Nice.
Might have guessed we would open up quite the can with these things... :icon_biggrin:
Went and took a pic of the Skylark parts car we plan on harvesting the tinted glass.
Whadda ya know it's also a Fremont car and built just two weeks after our GS! :headbang:
Entirely conceivable that glass might have sat around a couple of weeks between manufacture and installation, right?
:evil6:
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I would suspect so. Tinted glass was an option that was available on both A/C and non A/C cars. Tinted glass was NOT part of the A/C option from the factory. It was an added cost on both.
Loren
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:angel4: :angel4: :angel4:
-
Ah, man.. Need help from a 65 GS expert right about now. :icon_salut: :notworthy:
Body-to-frame rubber mounts.
Ordered up a complete set for 65 GTO from Ames Pontiac.
Figured they were the same, and a good source for the right stuff.
Now I'm not so sure...
Are the GTO and our GS different?
Or are we just dealing with what the aftermarket has to offer us now?
Where to get correct rubber mounts?
The factory-replica bolts and big flat washers from Ames are lovely.
But check out this weirdness with the mounts near the rear axle (pic1).
There are captive nuts welded inside the support rails under the body there (pic2).
Rubber mounts are just flat on top and don't have bolts into these nuts (pic3)
The body just sits on these - even though there's a place for bolts? :dontknow:
The Ames mounts are pretty good quality it seems.
And while it's hard to tell if they are correct or not because the originals are all squooshed,
I'm thinking maybe they can be made to work?
Perhaps it's an upgrade to actually have these mounts near the rear end actually bolt up?
Ugh.
Here i was all stoked to get the good stuff and have it just work,
but they're so different than what i removed.
Let me know if any of you guys have crossed this bridge before.
Please and thanks,
Steve
-
Also, trying to figure out what color the interior is on our parts car.
Colorblind guy here, remember...
Shows the trim code as TR 133.
That's not listed on our decoder here:
https://65gs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1965-Buick-VIN-plate.pdf (https://65gs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1965-Buick-VIN-plate.pdf)
Anybody know the answer to this riddle?
-
Code TR133 is the code I have on my Skylark. My original interior was Fawn.
Ames were the body mounts I used and did a bolt mount instead of a solid puck.
-
Body mounts.... oh boy, that can be a long one!
Bill and I had a discussion over on V8Buick, take a look:
https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/my-66-gs-hardtop-body-mounts.290996/ (https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/my-66-gs-hardtop-body-mounts.290996/)
I've bought kits from Year One, CARS, and Ground Up. All had the same generic bushings and washers that will fit/work.
If you want correct looking bolts, Ground Up includes flanged bolts that aren't a perfect match but it's a nice kit for around $70, includes the mounts and bolts.
Inline Tube supposedly has correct repo bolts. They may be the AMK Products bolts, which are the best available for 'correctness'.
My '66 used the generic style mounts in the front and sides. The mount in front of the rear wheels has a smaller diameter hole in the frame, the rubber mount had to be trimmed to fit. The mount above the rear axle has a 'puck' style like this one from Restoration Specialties:
https://www.restorationspecialties.com/20024-BUM-Sold-Individually_p_36813.html (https://www.restorationspecialties.com/20024-BUM-Sold-Individually_p_36813.html)
Or CARS:
https://oldbuickparts.com/?target=search&mode=search&substring=bm11&including=all (https://oldbuickparts.com/?target=search&mode=search&substring=bm11&including=all)
It presses in, no bolts required.
The mounts behind the rear wheels and at the rear crossmember were a larger diameter than the generic kit mounts.
They can be bought individually from CARS and/or Restoration Specialties.
https://oldbuickparts.com/?target=search&mode=search&substring=body%20mount&including=all (https://oldbuickparts.com/?target=search&mode=search&substring=body%20mount&including=all)
https://www.restorationspecialties.com/search.asp?keyword=Rubber+Body+Mount (https://www.restorationspecialties.com/search.asp?keyword=Rubber+Body+Mount)
-
Code TR133 is the code I have on my Skylark. My original interior was Fawn.
Ames were the body mounts I used and did a bolt mount instead of a solid puck.
Excellent.
Had a hunch - thanks for confirming.
Did the car have a Fawn colored steering wheel as well?
The wheel in our parts Skylark almost looks Saddle to me... :icon_scratch:
Maybe it's just my wishful thinking because the parts car has a way nicer wheel.
One of the great things about being colorblind is things can be any color you want..! :laughing7:
-
Walt, you're the king! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Exactly what we had going on here.
SO nice to have others help me cross the bridge (and to know I'm not crazy).
Before we put a blasted and powder-coat-primered shell on a frame for 100s of hours of metalwork, mockup, shimming, gapping and blocking,
A guy sure doesn't want a bunch of the wrong size mounts under it! :nono:
-
Ah, man.. Need help from a 65 GS expert right about now. :icon_salut: :notworthy:
Body-to-frame rubber mounts.
Ordered up a complete set for 65 GTO from Ames Pontiac.
Figured they were the same, and a good source for the right stuff.
Now I'm not so sure...
Are the GTO and our GS different?
Or are we just dealing with what the aftermarket has to offer us now?
Where to get correct rubber mounts?
The factory-replica bolts and big flat washers from Ames are lovely.
But check out this weirdness with the mounts near the rear axle (pic1).
There are captive nuts welded inside the support rails under the body there (pic2).
Rubber mounts are just flat on top and don't have bolts into these nuts (pic3)
The body just sits on these - even though there's a place for bolts? :dontknow:
The Ames mounts are pretty good quality it seems.
And while it's hard to tell if they are correct or not because the originals are all squooshed,
I'm thinking maybe they can be made to work?
Perhaps it's an upgrade to actually have these mounts near the rear end actually bolt up?
Ugh.
Here i was all stoked to get the good stuff and have it just work,
but they're so different than what i removed.
Let me know if any of you guys have crossed this bridge before.
Please and thanks,
Steve
Steve -
This sticky thread should be a great resource for you. Body mount referenced in that thread here: https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,2177.msg37026.html#msg37026
-
Been busy at it.
Still posting the "story" stuff on V8.
Mostly because Buddy's friends can get on and see the pics without an account.
Most of you guys are on there anyways, right?
https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/buddy%E2%80%99s-beauty-%E2%80%9865-gs-build.393837/page-6#post-3553630 (https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/buddy%E2%80%99s-beauty-%E2%80%9865-gs-build.393837/page-6#post-3553630)
Saving the nerdy details for the REAL 65GS experts! :angel4:
Matt Martin sent this pic saying the block was:
"Originally an LT block factory re-stamped for the GS Skylark".
"Have heard of some GS Skylark blocks being stamped like that but first time seeing it".
Any of you guys have back-story on this phenomenon?
-
Been busy at it.
Still posting the "story" stuff on V8.
Mostly because Buddy's friends can get on and see the pics without an account.
Most of you guys are on there anyways, right?
https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/buddy%E2%80%99s-beauty-%E2%80%9865-gs-build.393837/page-6#post-3553630 (https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/buddy%E2%80%99s-beauty-%E2%80%9865-gs-build.393837/page-6#post-3553630)
Saving the nerdy details for the REAL 65GS experts! :angel4:
Matt Martin sent this pic saying the block was:
"Originally an LT block factory re-stamped for the GS Skylark".
"Have heard of some GS Skylark blocks being stamped like that but first time seeing it".
Any of you guys have back-story on this phenomenon?
https://65gs.com/engine-codes/
Details there
-
Ah, man.. Need help from a 65 GS expert right about now. :icon_salut: :notworthy:
Body-to-frame rubber mounts.
Ordered up a complete set for 65 GTO from Ames Pontiac.
Figured they were the same, and a good source for the right stuff.
Now I'm not so sure...
Are the GTO and our GS different?
Or are we just dealing with what the aftermarket has to offer us now?
Where to get correct rubber mounts?
The factory-replica bolts and big flat washers from Ames are lovely.
But check out this weirdness with the mounts near the rear axle (pic1).
There are captive nuts welded inside the support rails under the body there (pic2).
Rubber mounts are just flat on top and don't have bolts into these nuts (pic3)
The body just sits on these - even though there's a place for bolts? :dontknow:
The Ames mounts are pretty good quality it seems.
And while it's hard to tell if they are correct or not because the originals are all squooshed,
I'm thinking maybe they can be made to work?
Perhaps it's an upgrade to actually have these mounts near the rear end actually bolt up?
Ugh.
Here i was all stoked to get the good stuff and have it just work,
but they're so different than what i removed.
Let me know if any of you guys have crossed this bridge before.
Please and thanks,
Steve
Steve -
This sticky thread should be a great resource for you. Body mount referenced in that thread here: https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,2177.msg37026.html#msg37026
Ah, man.. Thanks for that!
Here i tweaked my back AGAIN!! :angryfire:
Didn't even move anything heavy or lift anything or... :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:
Making my kid measure holes and mounts,
Drawing up a little picture with all of the kid measurements written in
(Different than just measurements :tongue3: ).
Now I'm stuck in bed ALL DAY not even able to stand without agony.
Crawling to the toilet on my hands and knees... SUCKS!
Got SO much great work to do out there now that we have panels all ready.
Able to take my time and measure and shop and get this right.
Check out how i have my bed all set up as an office. :laughing7:
All thanks to you fine gentlemen providing the means to do so.
Maybe an opportunity... Force me to slow down and actually suss this out.
Research and parts ordering is a crucial part of the job.
Right?
:icon_scratch:
-
Dear Clatter and mid-60s Buick preservationists,
. . . .
Here i tweaked my back AGAIN!! :angryfire:
Didn't even move anything heavy or lift anything or... :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:
. . .
Sorry to hear about your back! All you can do is baby it and give it time to heal. All I can offer you is sympathy!
Take care!
Edouard
-
Lower back pain. What my pt recommended was pillow behind my back when sitting, I use a pillow roll down low in the small of my back. I take very little ibuprofen as I have had stomach problems since 1964. I do one exercise where I am on my hands and knees and I bow my back downward and then upwards. There more exercises I have probably forgotten. (I have the pillow roll down low behind me right now)
-
....
Matt Martin sent this pic saying the block was:
"Originally an LT block factory re-stamped for the GS Skylark".
"Have heard of some GS Skylark blocks being stamped like that but first time seeing it".
Any of you guys have back-story on this phenomenon?
One of my 66 GS's also has the engine stamping 'corrected'. For 66, the standard 401 was a MT code, while the Skylark GS was a MR. Skylark GS's also got a red painted 401. There have been rumors some early cars got sold with a green 401.
This car was built at the Fremont plant. The vin stamping matches the car and there were no traces of green paint on the engine, I've concluded it's the original engine.
-
Oh, and the '447' engine production code you show....
I've read that it may be based on a 2 year cycle for the 1964-65 production year.
001 would be 1/1/64, 365 would be 12/31/64, 366 would be 1/1/65, and your 447 would be (447-365=82) or the 82nd day of 1965= 3/23/65. Sound about right?
I applied this theory to my 66's, the engine production date was about 1-3 months before the cars build date.
My production codes ranged from 289 to 513....decoded as 10/16/65 to 5/28/66.
I haven't seen much discussion on this topic, take my above info as just a theory.
-
Whoo! Been way too busy lately.. And not on a Buick! :nono:
So,
Finally getting this shell off to blasting here next week.
And a couple of last minute things need sussed out.
Expert advice is badly needed.
My nemesis - Colors! :help:
Here, I've taken pictures of these interior areas where we have paint.
Is it gold? Is this saddle?
My wife is no help... :angry5:
Here the top of the dash is masked with some of the stuff,
And then the adjacent area is blacK?
Is that factory?
Then, we get into the cowl area and its body color (midnight aqua) again.
See also this brown? Gold? :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: color along the back window,
And again, up under the dash by the vents, and inside the a-pillars as well.
This stuff is factory original, right?
These overspray/masked areas are OG?
Correct to reproduce...?
If this is all saddle, do we have paint codes somewhere?
Was going to get it all mixed up at my local paint store..
-And-
Koch's has our steering wheel.
And they want to know what color it's supposed to be! :icon_tongue:
How would I ever know?!?!? :tongue3: :tongue3:
So,
A saddle interior gets a saddle wheel??
They didn't see that color in their book.
If I'm going to be shooting Saddle on the dash (Gold?) then I'll be sending either some paint to Koch's,
or maybe a spray-out sample..
But only if i can figure this out...!
Simply no way for me to "try harder" or "look more closely" or "put it in the sun" or...
Big thanks for the help gentlemen.
Nothing worse than feeling all handicapped... :angry9:
-
So,
A saddle interior gets a saddle wheel??
They didn't see that color in their book.
If I'm going to be shooting Saddle on the dash (Gold?) then I'll be sending either some paint to Koch's,
or maybe a spray-out sample..
Yes, Saddle interior, saddle wheel.
Interior paint codes: https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,4838.msg36535.html#msg36535
PaintRef.com if Koch's cannot match the Ditzler PPG number. https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?ditzler=22570
(Fisher No. W60A3310, Ditzler code 22570, Dupont Lucite code 4626-L)
-
So,
A saddle interior gets a saddle wheel??
They didn't see that color in their book.
If I'm going to be shooting Saddle on the dash (Gold?) then I'll be sending either some paint to Koch's,
or maybe a spray-out sample..
Yes, Saddle interior, saddle wheel.
Interior paint codes: https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,4838.msg36535.html#msg36535
PaintRef.com if Koch's cannot match the Ditzler PPG number. https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?ditzler=22570
(Fisher No. W60A3310, Ditzler code 22570, Dupont Lucite code 4626-L)
Excellent, thanks for the quick reply!
This gold-looking paint on the dash and column and whatnot is saddle as well?
Whadda ya know...
Some is gloss and some is flat?
Whoo!
WAY more going on here than i can see! :binkybaby:
Going to have to really dig in and see what's what.
Thanks again for the wisdom.
(https://65gs.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4838.0;attach=20957;image)
-
OK, want to be sure i have this right.
If the car's interior color is saddle.
First-
We use Medium Saddle Poly #22570 -In a gloss finish- on most all of these interior parts.
Dash, column, garnish moldings, etc. Basically, most all the stuff painted brown.
Then-
We'll use Dark Saddle Poly #22573 -in a gloss finish- On certain other items?
The Saddle interior uses this other dark saddle color?
Or is our second color something else besides dark saddle?
They didn't use like medium dark fawn or..?
They list the parts being painted this color as:
Instrument panel end filler
Floor shift transmission panel base
Rear Front Back radio speaker grille
Short console
Since our car was an automatic, and i didn't see any speaker covers.
Guessing this just means the big plastic console itself?
It sure -looks- like the same saddle color as everything else to me...
WTF is "instrument panel end filler" or "transmission panel base"?
Guessing "short console" is a.k.a. consolette on stick cars?
Finally-
We have more Dark Saddle Poly #22534 -in a flat finish- on other parts.
The list these parts as:
Upper instrument panel - painted
Grill rear window defroster, rear seat speaker, package shelf
Guidematic. Front speaker grill
Windshield lower frame - (exposed end area)
Compartment front panel
I'm guessing they did some flat paint along under the bases of windows to keep glare down.
You don't see shiny dashes and lower trim because it reflects on the window blocking visibility.
As for how that would work for us,
It's going to be tricky because there's another guy wielding the spray gun.
-Might- just go ahead and shoot the brown stuff myself,
Or maybe have him shoot the dash and all the regular gloss saddle,
Then re-mask and shoot the few flat corners at the window bases?
We'll see how the guy feels.
Exactly the kind of stuff to drive a painter crazy... :icon_biggrin:
(He does restomods)
The chances of me being there while he's shooting to get that right are near nil.
So...
Anybody know what "upper instrument panel - painted" is?
How about "compartment front panel"?
Guessing what's next is getting a bit of paint.
pint of Saddle in gloss,
half-pint of Dark Saddle in gloss
half-pint of Dark Saddle in flat
So, some spray-outs, and dig out all of our interior parts to be painted.
Wash them all up really well and haul them all out into the sun.
-Maybe- with some help, we can identify which interior parts are dark saddle.
As to where the interior gets the flat paint,
We'll just have to wing it.
It's all flat paint 60 years later on this car.
It sat outside.
Think I'm on the right track?
Even on the right train?? :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
-
Anybody have an original car with the interior out handy?
Care to take a peek at the interior paint spray in there for me?
I'm 68% sure ours is factory original,
But anything is possible.
After this week, all of that will be gone forever, blasted away into the wind! :angel4:
Also,
Koch's is doing our steering wheel.
They asked if we wanted the center horn button area chromed.
Ours look like they were painted silver,
But, maybe they're both just super old and flat nasty.. :confused4:
Were those horn buttons shiny chrome origianally?
Thanks again for all of the help gentlemen.
I know I'm being a neurotic nut about this stuff,
But we want this car to be restored, not restroyed! :violent5:
Don't wanna be "that guy".
That PO....
:icon_tongue:
-
....
So...
Anybody know what "upper instrument panel - painted" is?
How about "compartment front panel"?
....
Upper Inst panel is the strip between the windshield and dash pad. It may be textured instead of smooth paint?
I'd have to research to other stuff.
Instead of buying a flat paint, you can use flat clear over the color.
Here's a pic of my '65 vert with Saddle interior.
-
Thanks for the help gentlemen.
Takes a village.
Took a bunch of pics and that's that.
No turning back now.
Friday after work some of the guys stopped by to help the boss with his project.
Wheeled it out to the street, then picked it up, while I un-bolted the rotisserie.
Tossed it into the trailer just like that! :icon_biggrin:
Our plan is another big drive day on Wednesday.
To Sacramento to drop off all the sheet metal for blast and interior parts to the chromer,
Then up to Grass Valley to retrieve the engine.
Big step!
Not too long before we go from "take apart" to "put back together". :cheers2:
-
Thank you for sharing your photos and commentary!! :hello2:
Thanks for the help gentlemen.
Takes a village.
. . . .
So true!
Edouard
-
Ah, man...
Interior paint is proving harder than anticipated.
Took the three paint codes to two different auto paint stores.
Both my local PPG and DuPont dealers couldn't cross-reference the three Saddle codes i found.
Ditzler 13003, GM W60A3310, or DuPont 4626-L
Batting a big goose egg on all counts. :BangHead:
Got to visit with Russ Martin the other day,
He's owned four '65s and just shot his saddle interior.
Said that you really can't know what's correct because Mother Buick changed it up.
They might have used dark saddle on one car but not on another.
His car the interior was all saddle, no 'dark saddle' anywhere.
He also wasn't familiar with their supposed use of flat paint around windows.
So who knows? :dontknow: :dontknow:
At this point I'd be happy to just get any saddle!
On a happier note,
We got the latest version of the Numbers book. :glasses9:
I'm sure you guys all have a copy of that one.
Think how much less I'll be bugging y'all with part number questions! :icon_biggrin:
-
Hi, quick Google Check everest automotive paint site says it has the factory colors .that said every plant got paint where avaliable dupont, rm,ppg how rushed the painter was .what day of the week it was.Jim
-
Buddy,
I’ve not seen the 60th Anniversary booklet you posted. Where can I get a copy?
-
Hopefully it is a revised version of the pre-publication I reviewed a couple of years back.
Loren
-
Buddy,
I’ve not seen the 60th Anniversary booklet you posted. Where can I get a copy?
Found it.
https://gsbythenumbers.com/shop/ols/products/1965-gran-sport-60th-anniversary
-
Ack!
Buddy is driving to LA tomorrow and can drop off our chrome to D&R.
Under the gun to get it all ready -today-...
Anybody know how the headlight switch knob comes off?
Do i dare grab the stick and thread the knob off?
Pop open the switch body itself and get it from inside?
Ack!
Don't want to hurt the thing......! :icon_salut:
:help:
Anybody out there can help this poor fool?
Big thanks again as always gentlemen.
-
Steve,
There is a spring-loaded latch button on the left side of the switch. See attached.
Chuck
-
Ah! There it is!
Knew there was some magic secret... :laughing7:
Owe you a beer or three for sure Chuck.
Really came through for me in a pinch! :icon_biggrin:
That came from these manuals i have here?
Dug around forever to no avail.
Figured if there was ONE thing a manual would be good for..
-
Also... These rollers for the glass frames.
They actually are supposed to go around?
Like, as in spin/roll? :dontknow:
The glass guy says that you drill the riveted-in center posts out,
Then new ones can be swedged in after the chrome is done.
He's also going to be polishing our date-code-matching set of green Soft-Ray,
And has excellent taste in art. :icon_biggrin:
These the same ones?
Maybe better to go to Ames, or..? :icon_scratch:
https://www.ss396.com/chevelle/WR-068.html?Category_Code=chevelle-glasswindowrollers (https://www.ss396.com/chevelle/WR-068.html?Category_Code=chevelle-glasswindowrollers)
https://www.ss396.com/chevelle/WR-344.html?Category_Code=chevelle-glasswindowrollers (https://www.ss396.com/chevelle/WR-344.html?Category_Code=chevelle-glasswindowrollers)
-
Ah! There it is!
Knew there was some magic secret... :laughing7:
Owe you a beer or three for sure Chuck.
Really came through for me in a pinch! :icon_biggrin:
That came from these manuals i have here?
Dug around forever to no avail.
Figured if there was ONE thing a manual would be good for..
Yep. Page 10-45 in the Chassis Manual.
-
Ah! There it is!
Knew there was some magic secret... :laughing7:
Owe you a beer or three for sure Chuck.
Really came through for me in a pinch! :icon_biggrin:
That came from these manuals i have here?
Dug around forever to no avail.
Figured if there was ONE thing a manual would be good for..
Yep. Page 10-45 in the Chassis Manual.
Ah! Here i was thinking that was body stuff... :idea1:
Hit me with a rubber chicken and call me Sally! :angel4:
-
Coming down to the wire...!
Weeks of doing nothing then a deadline comes up!
Cigarette lighter...
Any way to take the knob off of that guy?
Soaking it in EvapoRust - hoping a secret trick shows itself.
The reason people get excited about a nice one of these is because they don't come apart, huh?
There's these bolts on the back of the doors,
Holding track parts in place.
Those are chrome.
Any other sneaky chrome bits a guy might miss?
-
Ther's a chrome bolt and washered nut on the front that holds the windwing assembly in the door.
Loren
-
Ther's a chrome bolt and washered nut on the front that holds the windwing assembly in the door.
Loren
Ack! There it is!
Knew there was something!
Thanks for keeping an eye out. :glasses9:
Why didn't i see this last night? :angel4:
All of this stainless and chrome (and 16 pieces of aluminum not shown),
Got loaded up in a van with Buddy and his wife destined for D&R in LA this morning.
Guess we can pop those into the mail..
Anything else? :icon_salut:
-
Ther's a chrome bolt and washered nut on the front that holds the windwing assembly in the door.
Loren
Ames has those!
-
Ah! That's right!
Don't even think about buying parts new sometimes.... :laughing7:
Thanks for the wisdom, gentlemen.
Really couldn't do this correctly without expert advice.
Back in the days before Internet we used to go to shops.
Every weekend we would hang around this or that place,
hoping to get the old man talking...
He usually would. :icon_biggrin:
Feel like that kid again, what with knowing -nothing- about Buick,
And y'all having so much experience.
Now that we have the car torn down,
boxes of stuff are going to blast and/or powder coat.
Need to figure out all of these engine details.
Know that i have been pouring over every pic i can find
(especially yours Walt).
Tons are saved to my hard drive.
Main problem is, one will show something painted black, another natural, and another green.
Guessing that Fremont did things a bit differently?
(Never heard of that in California before, eh? :blob7: )
Thanks again for taking your valuable time to read these wordy posts.
Try as i might to pare them down... they end up SO long! :angel4:
When we brought the engine to the Martins for rebuild,
we included the pulleys and they rebuilt our steering pump.
They painted parts in Buick Green or a glossy(?) black.
First pic shows parts they did; black pulleys, plug wire brackets in green.
Hard to see, but both PS pump brackets are both green as well.
Far as i can tell, that's all correct, right?
Second pic is of stuff i didn't include.
PS pump pulley will get gloss black, right?
Lower right... Moving left...
Guessing that the little fuel line 'hoop' brackets that hang off of the oil pan get green? :icon_scratch:
Left of that, the wire holder on passenger valve cover - it's supposed to be green too, right?
Shouldn't i have two of those? :dontknow:
What's that other little thingie to the left of the wire holder? :tongue3:
Alternator brackets are reportedly bare metal?
Some i see are black?
The other brackets are green...
Our OG Fremont-built '65 Skylark parts car -seems- to have the alt bracket in bare metal (see pic)?
But, as you know, a 300 ain't a 401. :laughing7:
Fuel filter holder-downer is natural?
Are those fuel hose spring clamps correct?
Metal filter 'can' right, too?
How about coil holder-downer? Natural? Black?
Coil seems to be a generic Napa replacement type.
Maybe just needs a squirt of semi-gloss(?) black, and one of those re-pop stickers....?
Speaking of that, saw that Inline Tube has a ton of decals.
Think they're a good place to get those? Who's best?
Is this one of use to us?
https://www.inlinetube.com/products/ged6401?year=1965&make=Buick&model=Gran+Sport (https://www.inlinetube.com/products/ged6401?year=1965&make=Buick&model=Gran+Sport)
Lastly,
Timing covers are painted, not natural finish, right?
Color-blind guy here can't tell the difference. :evil6:
Apologies in advance for bombing y'all with a zillion questions.
All these engine parts were painted blue or orange :BangHead: and i want to get them right.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts and memories!
Back in the days before Internet we used to go to shops.
Every weekend we would hang around this or that place,
hoping to get the old man talking...
He usually would. :icon_biggrin:
So true! Alas, those old experts are becoming an endangered species!
Now that we have the car torn down,
boxes of stuff are going to blast and/or powder coat.
. . .
Thanks for sharing the photos! I didn't have enough parts powder coated, but the parts I did treat that way still look beautiful closing in on a decade since being done. Like everything else on a car, take good care of what you've got and the car will bring you a smile every time you get her out for a drive!
Thanks again for the smiles!
Edouard
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Ah, thanks Edouard, means a lot.
Was remembering a thread about all of this engine color/finishes stuff.
Shoulda bookmarked it.
Might even be in my thread here somewhere! :icon_scratch:
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Digging Digging.
One at a time we knock them out. :glasses9:
Search the forum, and there's the story on fuel filters.
https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,301.0.html (https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,301.0.html)
We know our number! GF94.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/396441052216?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=hp1e6zzhrrg&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=oWK9TOXeQWu&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY (https://www.ebay.com/itm/396441052216?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=hp1e6zzhrrg&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=oWK9TOXeQWu&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY)
Pow! we got a hit. :rocker:
Found the 'engine colors' link - it was in my 'intro' thread.
Thanks again Loren.
https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,269.0.html (https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,269.0.html)
Also messaged Matt Martin and he was nice enough to answer.
If anyone would know it's him.
Said on Fremont cars the upper alt adjustment strap piece was Buick Green.
Ordered a can of Bill Hirsch paint since that's what they used.
Probably going to hit small things like the PG pump cap, coil holder, filter holder with some soda.
Hopefully the original coatings are still holding up.
Getting closer!
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Matt Martin kindly sent this.
Fremont car.
:glasses9:
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Matt Martin kindly sent this.
Fremont car.
:glasses9:
That's one of them. There is also one towards the back. I recall a conversation about the two pieces.
Here's a picture of the two guides. The picture is from the thread where these were talked about.
Loren
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Great progress!
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Thanks Loren.
Now to see if I can't find that other one!
That little guy looks like a hider, no?
And it might have been missing all along!
:violent1:
Here's why this forum is SO valuable.
Takes a village.
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Great progress!
Thanks Jim.
Been flailing away!
Keep skipping around from one area to the next... :tard:
Tore the front end down.
At least, down enough to make a shopping list,
Then throw it back together just to be a roller.
Will be using the chassis as a jig to straighten the body...
The PO said that the brakes were freshly re-done and ready to go. :evil6:
Our shopping list includes only one item, and that's "Everything"! :bootyshake:
Seen all kinds of ways to secure cotter pins.
Could this possibly be factory GM?
Time for some homework on this great site.
Thanks again for all of the help, gentlemen.
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Matt Martin kindly sent this.
Fremont car.
:glasses9:
That's one of them. There is also one towards the back. I recall a conversation about the two pieces.
Here's a picture of the two guides. The picture is from the thread where these were talked about.
Loren
Dag? Trying to find the thread mentioned here?
Those little fiddly engine pieces have their own thread?
Where?? :hello2:
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Here ya go:
https://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,4343.0.html
Loren