65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: GranSportSedan on November 17, 2021, 06:06:00 PM
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Miraculously I have managed to source a complete 65-66 GS manual transmission bellhousing and clutch linkage setup. What I don't have is a manual transmission. What transmissions will work with the factory bellhousing? I love to find an original 3-speed or t-10 four-speed but I'm sure those are very difficult to come by.
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Hey Bob.
I have the T-10 that was behind my nailhead in my '64 Skylark.
I am going to be rebuilding it over the winter.
1963 T-10 Wide Ratio
If you are not in a hurry, and are interested, let me know and I'll stick you name on it.
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My car came to me with a Muncie M21 4-speed bolted to the nailhead bellhousing. It worked fine with the Muncie shifter that was installed. So you are not limited to a T-10 if you'd like to go a different direction.
I replaced the Muncie with a T-10 for originality. So it is available if anyone is interested. Another option to consider.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Hey Chuck,
I didn?t know you took the Muncie out of yours. I sold an original 65 skylark trans but I found out it was not the same as GS even though it was a Borg Warner. I know the bellhousing accepts Borg Warner,Muncie, or even a Saginaw. There was a minor difference in length from a 65-6 GS trans from a skylark. The GS only trans has nickel gears and is stamped GS on the aluminum tail where the shifter bolts on. If originality is not an issue I think the Muncie just bolts in identical to the others?.you can?t hardly buy a used Saginaw reasonable so the Muncie or Borg Warner?s are getting harder to find. I know a lot of people have bought the newer richmonds because they could not find a usable bolt in at a fair price. Finding the other four speed linkage and bellhousing was probably 90% of the battle. I do know where an original late 65 to early 66 GS trans is located in Flint,but not sure he will part with it. Dan
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I have a Richmond 5 speed in my red 66. It's the older 4+1 which has the 3.26 1st gear and 1:1 fifth. It's a close ratio which I'm not a huge fan of, but price was right at $1500 10+ years ago.
The front bearing retainer did not fit the Nailhead setup. The OD of the retainer had to be turned down to fit the hole in the bellhousing, and the shaft portion had to be turned down to fit the Nail's throwout bearing. A local shop did it for me for under $50.
There are some other transmissions that need the front retainer machined to fit the Nail's throwout bearing. I don't recall if some Muncies need the mod or if it was off-makes like Ford or AMC stuff.
I've heard of a 3+1 OD transmission that Ford used in the 60's. Maybe it was the T86? That would be a neat combo.
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Bob those 3 speeds are around, Pontiac and oldsmobile also used them . The biggest problem with the 3 speed is gonna be finding an original shifter .
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Hi,
Here's a t-10 trans and shifter on evilbay right now
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-BUICK-SKYLARK-GS-401-NAILHEAD-BW-T10-4-SPEED-SHIFTER-LINKAGE-FLYWHEEL-/264704372327?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-BUICK-SKYLARK-GS-401-NAILHEAD-BW-T10-4-SPEED-SHIFTER-LINKAGE-FLYWHEEL-/264704372327?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0)
Also the 3 speed trans were used by Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac, not sure if Chevy used the same HD 3 speed aka Ford toploader, but they are around.
Regards,
Jim
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Hi again,
Here's a 3 speed also on evilbay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-68-Pontiac-Olds-Buick-3-speed-Top-loader-manual-transmission-/373309499796?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-68-Pontiac-Olds-Buick-3-speed-Top-loader-manual-transmission-/373309499796?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0)
Regards,
Jim
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Yes Dan, you're right. The Muncie simply bolts in and there was no change required for the driveshaft. Shifter linkage could be a problem, but replacing the Muncie shifter with a Hurst would easily solve that, I would think.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Hi,
One thing to note is using a Muncie moves the shifter farther back, think 7/8" as the GS T10 has 2 positions for mounting the shifter, 6 holes vs 3 on a Muncie and non-gs tail housing.
Regards,
Jim
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That's right Jim. I forgot I had to move the hole in the hump forward with the T-10 and Hurst shifter.
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I still have to see that thing done Chuck....looks great in the pics, very nice car. FYI....that trans on ebay looks correct,but I do not believe the shifter and linkage is correct for Buick. The handle on a Buick 3 or 4 peed car is not curved like some other GM cars...malibu,nova,etc.
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Pretty sure I still have some Hurst shifters from my 66 GS 3 speed car somewhere.
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Good to know that I don't have to source an original style transmission. I have a whole bunch of cool nailhead goodies that I would love to stuff into a special. Part of me thinks it would be neat to do all that to a 4-door.
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That $3200 eBay 4 speed only has one ring on the input shaft. Didn't the high nickel GS version have 3 rings?
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Hi again,
Also forgot to mention if using a non-Buick nailhead 3 or 4 speed you will need to have the bearing retainer machined down as the factory throwout is smaller ID (think 0.030, but has been a while)than others used by GM cars or even later Buicks of that era, and the holder is not available so don't throw it out as hard to come by, bearing is available separately.
Regards,
Jim
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That $3200 eBay 4 speed only has one ring on the input shaft. Didn't the high nickel GS version have 3 rings?
Bob that 4 speed is owned by the guy I bought my verde green car from that i,m in the middle of restoring . I would check that out VERY close before buying it . Something tells me that trans may have been pieced together, the output shaft splines didn't look right to me . He showed me the trans when I went out and picked up my car .
maybe someone else can tell by looking at it that's more familiar with them than me .
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Yes three rings on input shaft is correct! I wonder if this is a wide ratio!? Seems like stated! Put together!
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John is correct....I was NOT,...that ebay trans is a 1963 borg warner case with a 65 GS tail housing. My KR correct trans has three rings and my friend has a later trans that is KR coded with three rings that I know for sure are correct 65 gs Borg Warners. Good eye John....also I was looking at some early mustang shifter handles that look like they may be the same as the Ford 3 speed used in Buicks (M13 trans)....is it possibly the same shift lever? Might be able to bolt it on a hurst base and have it look totally stock?
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I believe the seller is the same guy who owns a 62 wildcat with a super charged .060 overbored 425. Luckily there's not a chance I would pay $3,200 even if it was the real deal 65 GS transmission.
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Yes he is the guy with the blown wildcat . Last I knew he was trying to sell that too .
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That $3200 eBay 4 speed only has one ring on the input shaft. Didn't the high nickel GS version have 3 rings?
I do believe the 3 rings on the input shaft is correct for the high-nickel content gears unique to the 65 GS BW T-10.
In addition, the eBay seller states the transmission is a wide-ratio with 1st @ 2.54:1, 2nd @ 1.89:1, 3rd @ 1.51:1 and 4th @ 1:1 (of course). I believe the 65 GS BW T-10 is a close-ratio with 1st @ 2.20:1, 2nd @ 1.64:1, 3rd @ 1.28:1, and 4th @ 1:1.
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Hi again,
That is correct the GS T-10 was a close ratio, similar ratios as a Muncie M21/M22, the wide ratio from my understanding is a better driving experience as I have heard of a few switching out gear sets.
I have a Autogear M22W in mine which is a wide ratio and previously ran a M20 and have never had any complaints about the ratios.
Also the 3 speed was closer in ratios with a wide ratio believe a 2.48 1st gear, most wide ratio are either 2.54 or 2.56
Regards.
Jim
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I have a correct t-10 4 speed transmission for the 65 gs if anyone is interested, located in western illinois, three ring, ?kr? case with gs tail housing
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I have a correct t-10 4 speed transmission for the 65 gs if anyone is interested, located in western illinois, three ring, ?kr? case with gs tail housing
do I dare ask how much you want for it?
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ok, so i have obtained an original GS bell housing and all clutch linkage, flywheel and pedal assy. picked up a 65-66 GS floor shift tilt steering column. so all I'm lacking for the big stuff is transmission and shifter.
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Transmission is easier to find then a correct shifter! Five speed Tremec would be a great replacement! Took me awhile to find the correct shifter with levers,linkage,switch and brackets! Best substitute is of course a Hurst!!! My 4 speed car had a Mr gasket in it when I got it! What a pos! Best of luck with your search!
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Transmission is easier to find then a correct shifter! Five speed Tremec would be a great replacement! Took me awhile to find the correct shifter with levers,linkage,switch and brackets! Best substitute is of course a Hurst!!! My 4 speed car had a Mr gasket in it when I got it! What a pos! Best of luck with your search!
Thanks, I've found a Rare muncie M13 3 speed that is reputed to be very durable and alalso found an original GTO shifter. Because of headers and combination valve location I may be forced to use a hydraulic throw out bearing.