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Drivetrain => Transmissions => Topic started by: moteaux on November 20, 2020, 09:22:39 PM

Title: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 20, 2020, 09:22:39 PM
I converted my GS from a ST300 to a TKO 600 5-speed manual  transmission. I also replaced the rearend with 4.11 gears. The differential and transmission gear ratios combine to shift in the sweet spot of the 401 torque curve. It's a combination that is a lot of fun to drive.

I ordered most of the components for this conversion from American Powertrain. The top of the TKO 600 is specifically modified to fit a GM A-Body. And it fits perfectly.

Some part numbers for reference:
- TREMEC TKO600 Part Number:  TCET5009
- Bellhousing: Quicktime Part# (RM-6017); I had to make some minor modifications to the bell for the installation.
- Pilot Bearing (without bushing): AC Delco 14061685 or Dorman Bearing Part No:690-057
- Flywheel: ScienceFriction 11’ FWBU-10002
- SCIENCE FRICTION 1126 STAGE1 SUPER STREET Pressure Plate and CLUTCH
- HYDRAMAX Hydraulic Clutch: HMGM-01101G
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 20, 2020, 09:29:43 PM
I provided American Powertrain with the dimensions of the crankshaft pilot bearing relief area and they fabricated a bushing with a pilot bearing for a nice interference fit.
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 20, 2020, 09:32:35 PM
I had to make a minor modification to the transmission tunnel.

The shifter knob was custom-made by https://www.twistedshifterz.com/. (https://www.twistedshifterz.com/.)
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 20, 2020, 09:39:46 PM
Some pics of the Hydramax hydraulic clutch. I have a 2015 Camaro SS with a Tremec TR6060 6-speed to compare to and the Hydramax compares very well for clutch engagement and pedal feel.
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 20, 2020, 09:50:25 PM
Some additional pics for reference. The GS stock crossmember can be used for this setup. However, I elected to replace it. American Powertrain cut and balanced a driveshaft for the new length and yoke/U-joint requirements.
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: dsags on November 21, 2020, 08:23:18 AM
Moteaux, thanks for the very informative post. Well done.

Dan
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 21, 2020, 08:27:26 AM
By my calculations, a 22-tooth driven gear would have been ideal for this configuration. But, my options were a 21 or 23-tooth driven gear. As best I can tell, a 22-tooth driven gear for my TKO style drive gear does not exist. I opted for a 21-tooth driven gear. Using my 'calibrated' phone app speedometer, the GS speedometer reading is very close to actual speed (+/- 1mph).

Tremec TKO 600 Drive Gear is 7 teeth (Yellow)
65 GS Calculation: (7 x 4.11 x 775)/1001 = 22.27 driven gear
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 21, 2020, 08:34:45 AM
Moteaux, thanks for the very informative post. Well done.

Dan

Thank you, Dan. When I decided to do this conversion, I did not find an internet resource and reference for a 65 GS TKO conversion. So, I took a lot of pictures and made notes along the way to post to this forum as a future reference for anyone interested in doing the same.

Marty
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 21, 2020, 08:55:26 AM
The GS gained 66 lbs. in this conversion. Here are some weight references:

Transmission Conversion (ST300 to TKO 600):  +14 lbs.
Rearend Conversion from a stock 10-bolt 3.08 to a 9-inch 4.11 Eaton TrueTrac Posi:  +48.4 lbs.
Driveshaft:  +3.4 lbs.
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: GS66 on November 21, 2020, 11:29:05 AM
Thanks for the great information! I am pondering a 5 speed for the 66 GS convertible which is now a 4 speed. I wonder if this could be made to work still keeping my factory consolette. For interstate driving and long trips I either need to add an overdrive to at least one of the cars or change one to a 2.56-2.73 type gearing.
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: Loren At 65GS on November 21, 2020, 11:33:20 AM
Moteaux, thanks for the very informative post. Well done.

Dan

X2

  Loren
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: cwmcobra on November 21, 2020, 11:34:31 AM
X3!

Chuck
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on November 21, 2020, 11:51:10 AM
Thanks for the great information! I am pondering a 5 speed for the 66 GS convertible which is now a 4 speed. I wonder if this could be made to work still keeping my factory consolette. For interstate driving and long trips I either need to add an overdrive to at least one of the cars or change one to a 2.56-2.73 type gearing.

I believe it will work, but I do not have a consolette to test fit. I installed a White Lightning shifter to the TKO. It's a nice and tight shifter, but not ridiculous. And more importantly, it is adjustable in several directions. I would be surprised to learn if you could not make it work with the factory consolette.

I selected a standard A-body location and tried to show the modification I had to make to the automatic tunnel hole location. Hopefully, the attached pictures and the adjustability of the White Lightening shifter can help you determine if it is worth attempting.
Title: Thank you!! (Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion)
Post by: elagache on November 21, 2020, 01:54:39 PM
Thank you moteaux for providing such a nice explanation of your transmission installation! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/thanks_sign.gif)

Cheers, Edouard  :occasion14:
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: GS66 on November 21, 2020, 03:33:09 PM
Yes, this is great information! Thank you!
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: Rollaround on November 21, 2020, 08:11:38 PM
Great info and well presented.  It will be a completely different ride.
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: wildcat65 on June 12, 2022, 07:42:20 AM
Greetings Marty
How is this going?  I'm curious about how the 4.11 gear is working.  I'm torn between the 3.42 and a 3.91 for my Tremec conversion on a 65 Wildcat.
3.42 is in the car and I'm about to try it out finally - started this in like 2003.
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: moteaux on June 12, 2022, 09:15:17 AM
My selection of gear ratios--transmission and rear end--were based on the 401 torque curve. I love the low RPM high torque of a 401. Said differently, I love the drivability of a muscle car with max torque at a low RPM. And the combination of a TKO 600 with a 0.64 OD gear and 4.11 rear end gears is nothing but pure fun around town. It is also a ratio combination that makes interstate driving reasonable and practical. In hindsight, I would not change anything. Therefore, I recommend you go with 3.91 gears.

You will hit the max torque of a 401 at ~2,800 RPM. Your tire height matters. I used my tire height (255/45 R17 = 26.04in) and the rear end gear ratios your considering for the calculations below. I used the Tremec Toolbox App to do this.
Pic 1: Tremec Tool Box App
Pic 2: 3.42 rear end gear with a TKO 600 (0.64 OD Gear)
Pic 3: 3.91 rear end gear with a TKO 600 (0.64 OD Gear)

I would get the Tremec App or find a calculator to play around with gear ratios to fit the kind of driving you would like to do with the car, keeping in mind the 401 torque performance curve.
Title: Re: 65 GS TKO 600 5-speed Conversion
Post by: WkillGS on June 12, 2022, 10:28:12 AM
Greetings Marty
How is this going?  I'm curious about how the 4.11 gear is working.  I'm torn between the 3.42 and a 3.91 for my Tremec conversion on a 65 Wildcat.
3.42 is in the car and I'm about to try it out finally - started this in like 2003.

The difference in first gear will be noticeable.
Your 'First gear starting ratio' is 1st gear multiplied by the rear ratio:
2.87 first x 3.42 rear = 9.8
2.87 x 3.91 = 11.22
General recommendation is around 10:1 for a street car.

A 9.8 ratio is ok, might have to slip the clutch a bit to get the car moving.
A 11.22 ratio would get the car moving from a stop easier but it will be a short first gear.... you'll have to shift into second at a slower speed.
You're likely running tall tires which will affect the above a little.

At the other end, compare your highway speed/rpm to see which works better for you.
You have some other stick cars, so do that 1st gear calculation on those for comparison.