65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Drivetrain => Transmissions => Topic started by: elagache on May 16, 2020, 04:57:29 PM
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Dear mid-60s Buick owners who keep an eye on all things new for da' Nailhead,
Russ Martin has done it again. This time he has created a bell housing so that you can connect a relatively recent GM 4L60-E transmission to any 1957-66 364-401-425 Buick Nailhead. Here is the eBay ad:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-NAILHEAD-Transmission-adapter-Bell-Housing-364-401-425-GM-4L60-E-overdrive/362996028093 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-NAILHEAD-Transmission-adapter-Bell-Housing-364-401-425-GM-4L60-E-overdrive/362996028093)
Here is some additional information on the Russ's own website:
http://centervilleautorepair.com/transadaptors (http://centervilleautorepair.com/transadaptors)
I assume this is mostly of interest to folks using the Nailhead in a hot rod instead of a period correct Buick, but it is always good to see new products for our beloved mid-60s Buicks! :love4:
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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You goin' nailhead now Ed??? Bill
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Another option to consider. I need to get an overdrive in at least one of my Gran Sports for cross country trips. But what is best between this 4L60E, the 200R4, 700R4, and Gear Venders? Stock nailheads so it doesn?t need to withstand 600 HP.
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Dear Bill, Jim, and mid-60s Buick owners with an interest in high-tech,
You goin' nailhead now Ed??? Bill
Well no, I’m not going to change Biquette's configuration for now, but I do feel a bit of chaffing because technology has been changing beneath my feet as I tried to modernize Biquette. When I started on all this back in 2011, there wasn't any obvious reason to go with any other transmission but the 200-4R. However, when upgraded to the FAST Sportsman in 2015 it had an additional option. Here is the FAST Sportsman info on their website:
https://www.fuelairspark.com/xfi-sportsman-throttle-body-efi-engine-control-system.html (https://www.fuelairspark.com/xfi-sportsman-throttle-body-efi-engine-control-system.html)
There is an add-on to control none other than a 4L60-E transmission:
https://www.fuelairspark.com/ez-tcu-transmission-control-unit-gm-4l70e-09.html (https://www.fuelairspark.com/ez-tcu-transmission-control-unit-gm-4l70e-09.html)
There is another model for more recent versions of this transmission. Now this would be expensive and that doesn't cover the cost of the transmission. However, it is a bit tempting because Biquette's 200-4R from California Performance Transmissions (http://www.cpttransmission.com/) shifts a bit abruptly. However, I'm not going to start over with only a modest benefit to be gained.
However, I can see that the company I bought my electronic fuel injection system from has been bought by Comp Cams. I suspect they couldn't cope with the increased competition for aftermarket EFI systems and ran into financial trouble. So even for our classic cars, trying to add some high tech means running into the same issues we might run into buying a computer or smart phone.
Another option to consider. I need to get an overdrive in at least one of my Gran Sports for cross country trips. But what is best between this 4L60E, the 200R4, 700R4, and Gear Venders? Stock nailheads so it doesn?t need to withstand 600 HP.
I'm certainly not a very good expert, but a stock nailhead means you probably don't need the extra toughness of the Gear Vendors or probably the 700R4. I think you cannot use the 4L60E without some sort of computer control, so that's probably not worth it unless you also want EFI and can find one that will control the transmission without an expensive add-on. Since it is a nailhead, probably either the 700R4 or 200-4R will work okay. Perhaps you can work with a transmission rebuilder to try to soften the shifting a bit. The only other problem would be making the connections to the existing shifter. I went with the IDidIt aftermarket steering column to avoid all the hassles of making the linkage work and having a correct overdrive indicator. Also I really wanted to have the backup lights work properly. When Biquette was upgraded to the TH-350, nothing was done to make the linkage match the transmission. It wasn't so far off that it was much of a bother, but the backup lights wouldn't come on unless you tweaked the shifter "just right." After decades of putting up with that - I had had enough! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/unhappy_grumble_smiley.jpg)
Shiftworks makes parts to allow you to connect a more modern transmission and reuse the existing shifter in many models of domestic cars:
https://shiftworks.com/ (https://shiftworks.com/)
If your GS has a floor shifter, Shiftworks has a kit for you:
https://shiftworks.com/collections/buick-products (https://shiftworks.com/collections/buick-products)
However, they still don't make a conversion kit for the column shifter. I think you could cobble one together with parts from these guys, but it would be much more of a chore.
That's about all I know on the subject, but perhaps there is a snippet or two that you weren't aware of. Glad to share what little I do know!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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I stuffed a Nailhead, T10 (1963 Wide Ratio) and a 3.54 rear (Strange S-60) into my 1964 Skylark Prototype-GS-Wannabee-Baddass-Motor Scooter and then realized I needed some of them overdrivers to get that RPMs down from the nosebleed section while runnin' down the highway, to a more-acceptable-and-respectable-less-than-3000k-at-70MPH, so I went all Gear Vendors, " considering they were folks that used to work for my uncle Leonard who invented the LENCO" since they had a pretty good piece of kit to hang on the back of a guy's transmission....
But, I found that the 1963 Borg and Warner bit of gearbox, with its widespread ratio, did not have a chance trying to hold hands between the torquish monster of the 465 foot-pounds of flavor and the stoutness of the Strange sort of rear-end hanging outback and the poor little Borg and Warner let the third gear take a hike in a slit-shift dort of way.
Killified that third gear, right there and then.
So. The Gear Vendors unit is a very good solution behind a ST300, ST400, TH400 etc., but might not be a good solution behind a BW or even a Muncie, especially if you are an "aggressive" driver, and the installation of a compatible auto transmission with overdrive is the better option. Or a Tremec for those who have the need/desire of a peddle car. (the GV is a strong unit, and the older transmission just could not take the torque of the built Nailhead and stong rear end from Strange Engineering)
I put a TKO 500 Wide Ratio in mine and have been more than happy with the driveability from dead start everyday driving, to embarrassing all the "Anything-But-Buicks" folks that think they "want-some-of-this-old-man".
Several ways to skin this cat. Figure the dollars, time, trouble you have to spend, and act accordingly.
Me? Whatever it takes to win.
It's in the genes.
And if it "speaks Nailhead" talk with Russ and his son Matt. Those cats have it figured out, and will save you more money and headaches than BC Powder ever dreamed of...
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Another option to consider. I need to get an overdrive in at least one of my Gran Sports for cross country trips. But what is best between this 4L60E, the 200R4, 700R4, and Gear Venders? Stock nailheads so it doesn?t need to withstand 600 HP.
Jim, start by deciding on a speed and rpm range, (and tire size), to determine what first and OD gear ratios will work best for you. Some combos will require a different rear axle ratio which would add to the cost.
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I have not ruled out just finding a 2.78 or so rear end and not going the OD route. Not sure where that would put my RPMs at 70 mph. Tires are 26? tall.
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With a 2.78 rear gear and 26.3” tires rpm at 70mph works out to 2500.
https://shiftsst.com/speed-analyzer
Dan
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Also when you start changing rear tire height....every inch taller usually jumps about one whole range....ie...A 26 inch tire with a 3:73 may change as much as a 3:55 gear ratio with a 27 inch tire. I know these Buicks don?t need to be screaming 3000 rpms down the road. Stock versions like mine have great torque at 1800 rpm during highway speeds. I put in a 3:08 and should have found something numerically lower. I may even suggest in a stock drag race class....a dogged out gear like 3:08 with a three speed car, you would outrun my four speed simply by out torquing mine.
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With a 2.78 rear gear and 26.3” tires rpm at 70mph works out to 2500.
https://shiftsst.com/speed-analyzer
Dan
You may not even need an overdrive!
Most 66 GS's came with a 2.93 rear, so....
Add some tall 255-70/15's (28.94") and you're doing 73 mph at 2500 rpm!
Back when I had 4.11's and L60-15's on my blue 66, It would happily buzz along at 3000rpm/60mph for hours on end.
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I have 235/70-15 on the back now and they almost rub on 6 inch Cragars. I need to find 7 inch Cragars with better backspacing for the 255s.