65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Projects & Restorations => Projects & Restorations => Topic started by: red65gs on November 18, 2019, 10:19:11 PM
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Beginning the journey to restore this 65 GS 3 speed.
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Thanks to everyone's help here, I've been able to decode everything but the "star". Built 3rd week of April in the Flint plant. V8 coupe, of course, with blue interior, 2 tone Astro Blue Poly with a white top. All tinted glass, 2 tone paint, 3 speed trans,backup lights, belted reveal molding, remote mirror, GS trim, door edge guards and deluxe retractor seat belts. I always wondered if the "star" was for star shaped headliner since people have speculated that the star is for some special interior code. This vehicle has the Tier style headliner or what's left of it. So the star doesn't makes sense. More to come as I make progress.
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Hey :headbang: another rare 3 speed car on the road to redemption! I have one to!A post car One of 405 so equipped! Also yours is one of 604 hardtops built with a 3 speed and one of 4881 hardtops built at Flint! Nice with the tinted glass and belt reveal!
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Very excited about the originality of this car. Still sporting the original AFB.
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Anyone know where I can get the correct barrel nuts for the emblem? Not sure why they were removed. The emblem was in the glovebox.
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That’s great on the carb as they are one year and hard to find! March of 65 date code! The square barrel clips
Might have to come from another glove box door!
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Where are you and the car located?
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I will have to look but I think a couple of my cars have the star on the cowl tag too. Good luck with the project!
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I found some barrel clips in an old spare glove box door I had. I'll have to carefully bend the tabs out to engage again. Was hoping to find a source for new. Also i read somewhere that the star was for a deluxe interior. That's makes me guess the star designates star headliner. Not sure what else it could be.
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I believe the star is only on Flint built cars.
Is it on all Flint tags?
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I think mine came from KCMO... Bill
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I believe the star is only on Flint built cars.
Is it on all Flint tags?
Apparently not, Walt. I have two 65 GS's built in Flint. One was a parts car and had no star on the trim plate. The other is the Steve Shuman car and it does have a star on the tag (bottom picture). I don't think it can designate a star headliner because the Shuman car is a convertible.
Any other theories? Conspiracy or other?? :laughing7:
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Under the stars??? Bill
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Star could indicate time period, do early cars have these as opposed to late cars? Could be used to signify a production change! Maybe a vendor change in a component! Like for instance if you had to use a different paint supplier? Would be interesting if they had that info on something like this at Sloan or in gm archives!
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It's amazing after all these years the star * is still a mystery, not just for Buick guys but all other GM division cars. The * is found on all GM products at least through the 60s and 70s.
Because it normally appears on the trim and paint line suggests it has something to do with special paint or trim items. However after some research this theory does not holdup. I thought the star headliner idea sounded pretty good but that went down in flames.
My suggestion (worth what you will pay for it) the * has nothing to do directly with the vehicle it's found on. It may be part of a GM production monitoring process to identify and track production quality. Almost every component ie: alternator, power steering pump, windshield wiper motor, radio all subcomponents have a QA stamp or tag of some sort. I suggest the * was installed by Fisher at the start of production to identify the completed vehicle for a QA inspection at the end of production.
Just a thought. Other thoughts?
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I guess the star remains a mystery. I'm stumped. However, I did find a nice kit for barrel nuts on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/202855924472?ViewItem=&vxp=mtr&item=202855924472 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/202855924472?ViewItem=&vxp=mtr&item=202855924472)
1/8" x 3/16" are the right parts for the glove box emblem.
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1/8" x 3/16" are the right parts for the glove box emblem.
Forgive my ignorance - aren’t the holes for the glovebox emblem square? So how do the round barrel nuts work?
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PS - any photos you can posit of the glove box emblem install would also be helpful. Thanks!
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I thought that was weird myself. The barrel nuts have 4 tapered guide tangs at the bottom to guide the barrel into place on the 4 sides. Then there are 2 more outward facing tangs further up that lock the barrel nut in the hole. Those have to be overcome if removing the old barrel nuts. I'll take a close up photo and post later. Only time I have ever seen a round peg fit a square hole. Very weird, I guess if the holes was round there would be no chance of removing the nut once in place.
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One more thing about the star on the cowl tag. Lots of forum searching leads me to believe that the star is Flint's way of denoting painted steel wheel color to match the lower body color. The Fremont tags use a 3 letter system as does some Pontiacs. I've yet to see a Flint tag with the 3 letters but the star is in the same position as the third letter in the Fremont code. It's logical that being on the Paint line would have something to do with paint. Since changing wheels is one of the first things people do it might be hard to find originals with born with wheels and the star code. Sure would like to see some feed back. i don't mind being wrong but would like to see the mystery solved. It seems logical that if the star feature was something to do with trim, interior or date coding it would be located in another area than paint. Sure would be nice to find a service bulletin, even from another year that mentions this star.
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I've had multiple Flint cars and all had black painted wheels and none of the cars were painted black on the exterior. I have a few trim tags in a box here. I was going to start a post and attach pictures of them.
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Here is some evidence for the * meaning wheels painted same color as the body. This is the firewall tag from a 65 Special 4-dr sedan I used to own, and I know for a fact it came with wheels painted body color--they were still on the car when I got it back in 1994. Car was un-touched--brake drums had never been off of it, and had bia-ply Sears tires on it.
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^^^ And Brian's car is an early build.
So we have a January and an April build with star, and a March build without star.
Since the cowl plate only determines how the body shell was built, and not which options were later installed at the assembly plant, I wouldn't think the cowl plate would have anything to do with what wheels were later bolted on the car.
The 1966 cowl plates added a hole punch when the car had front seat shoulder belt reinforcements added to the body.
I would guess the 65 star may indicate a similar mod to the body shell. Just as an example, maybe rear seat belt mounts. ( was that a 64 or 65 addition?).
The fact the star is Flint-only and appears on builds throughout the model year adds to the mystery!
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Walt,
That same 65 4dr I posted the tag from also had factory installed rear seat belts...
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Here are a few trim tags....
1964 Tags have the * as well. The 1964 tag below the blue tag is a highly optioned car. I believe it came with spoked hubcaps.
They are all from some Special, Sportwagon and Skylark cars I parted. I have 3 more cars here....I'm sure no one needs to see those tags.
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Dear Walt, Brian, Brian, and mid-60s Buick history detectives,
This conversation about the meaning of the symbols on the cowl builder's plate is indeed interesting and puzzling! Thanks for all your insights.
Of course, at the time the only the GM employees who needed to know were informed and if any employee was asked what future owners would think these symbols would mean in 50 years, I'm sure they would have simply laughed. Still it is a testimony to Buick in those days that we still have these cars around so we can puzzle over these questions.
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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More body tag samples! Top pair are GS cars! A rare 4speed ,pw post car!, and a 3speed hardtop! Bottom two are hardtop Skylarks
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A couple more! One from a hardtop and one from a convert gs!,both very early cars no star!
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I'm kind of along the same thoughts as Walt on this! ,as the body tag is just that for items on the body ! The star after the paint code is only found in Flint cars!? So far? The other cars I have seen with a star where KC build cars that had special order paint! But there where two stars not one! Special and Special Deluxe cars had body colored painted wheels many times as they
ran just the dog dish hub caps! The Skylark and GS models ran the flipper
hub cap which covered the whole wheel! My KC built early GS had flippers and
the steel wheels were painted silver when I got it! No way to document this without the build sheet or original order! Of interest is KC plant used much the
same coding as Flint, but I have never seen a star on KC built cars! Another point of interest is the material use sheet which shows only 5279 cars got rear seat belts! Only 1 car that I parted had rear belts!
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Here's a photo of an old emblem with the barrel nuts on it.
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Old barrel nut vs new one. -shows how the round part fits in the square hole.
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I found a couple more things about the star today. Someone posted a cowl tag from a 61 Buick that has the three letter paint code and a star.
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A couple more! One from a hardtop and one from a convert gs!,both very early cars no star!
my early small badge stick car has the same solid, blind rivet trim tag rivets...identicle......i thought they where replaced some time in the 80s with an amateur resto
no star either
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I also found a 1965 wholesale car order form. It shows the star as the code for demonstrator, fleet order, etc. look in lower right hand corner. Notice Flint factory delivery...might be why the star was on Flint cars only. The painted wheel option is listed under 3 in the same corner so blows that theory.
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Hi red65gs , Hey just wondering what your plans are for your 65 GS . complete frame off restoration ?
I,ll be following along as I am also doing a 65 GS 3 speed car . Mine was not a complete car when I got it and was missing almost everything .
So as I follow along I might have a few questions for you . That is if you don't mind sharing .
Good luck on your restoration .
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Hi John,
I want to at least make a driver out of the car and be able to enjoy it. The frame is in poor shape so still deciding if I'll switch completely or cut out bad sections and weld in new sections. Either way the body will have to come off the frame. Lots of sheet metal work too. I'm going to have to put in drivers side floor, rocker panel, full trunk floor, lower rear quarters, front fender patches, front window channel and rear window channel. I liked this car because it was numbers matching, very original and my favorite color. This is my 4th '65 and the most original so far. Love nailheads with manuals, so much fun to drive.
I'll be glad to share photos and details as I can.
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Trunk photo of major rust. I'm glad to see lots of other guys posting with this issue and their solutions. Thanks to Bill for selling me the braces, now I can just buy the sections of floor and complete. Also thanks to Mark for the rear bumper since the one on the car is pitted badly.
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Dear Don and mid-60s Buick restorers,
Trunk photo of major rust. I'm glad to see lots of other guys posting with this issue and their solutions.
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OUCH!! that's definitely the wrong way to end up with a red car! :BangHead: Fortunately, others have tackled this problem before you. I'm glad you have already gotten some help. Do keep us posted as you proceed on restoring the trunk of your car..
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Hi Edouard,
Yeah guess I should change my sign on name. I didn't have this car at the time though, the one before this was red.
cheers!
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On that star issue... could that have been a factory ordered "Blue Coral" protectant job? Just thinking out loud. Don, you most certainly have a full plate. I didnt realize the braces were for you. Youll be an exspurt by the time this one is done! :hello2: :hello2: Bill
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Hi Bill, Edouard, marxjunk. John, gssizzler. Don Don't let the rust scare you. Some of us have put together GSs from a pile of parts that we salvaged from all over the country.
I see that rusted trunk. But all of those parts can be replaced with new metal, just takes time a lot of time. If your lower rear wheel wells are rotted on the bottom as mine were and you are doing the work yourself. Let me know and I will tell you the trick I used to match the lower wheel well to the trunk section perfectly. Like many others on this site I'm part of the been there done that club. :thumbsup:
Tony
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Thanks Bill and Tony! I'm planning to take my time, doing things as right as possible and my skill will allow. Working on these old cars is good therapy, so I like learning and building the car myself.
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Hey Don... Pat (the ISO haha) and I drove around from here to Texas looking for "the car" and found the BAD LASS 50 miles from home. She was rode easy, but put away wet when gramma quit driving it in 1980. Guessing about 2010, "Johnny" got a tool box for christmas and decided he was gonna restore grammas car. He took it all apart but had the foresight to keep everything separated in plastic bags. Over the next 10 years the disintegrated into individual piles of where they sat, but were there nevertheless.
Before that, we looked (virtually) at a 65 GS in Pataterpatch, Michigan. It had languished in the weeds for a few decades and the guy wouldnt even attempt to pull it out until a buyer was at hand. It came with a spare frame. The first few pics you posted reminded me of that car. Not one and the same by any chance??? Bill
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I found this Gran Sport in middle TN. Saw it on craigslist 3 years ago and it looked terrible from sitting outside for years but very complete. I bought it last year from the craigslist buyer who let it sit for 2 years. I think it takes a person like me who really loves '65 Gran Sports to stay dedicated.
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It is really unfortunate that more panels aren't made for these cars! Making repairs more costly and harder!
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Swapped out tires and wheels with some I had laying around. The originals were dry rotted and flat. One stud was so rusty the nut had welded to it so I had to grind it off. Replacement of brake drums added to list, lol.
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Dear Don and mid-60s Buick restorers,
Swapped out tires and wheels with some I had laying around. The originals were dry rotted and flat.
Thanks for the update! Glad to see the progress!
One stud was so rusty the nut had welded to it so I had to grind it off. Replacement of brake drums added to list, lol.
You never know what you might run into when restoring one of these cars! Fortunately, not too great a challenge to deal with.
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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I like the RWL tires on there.
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I picked up a full trunk floor today for a exceptional price. Looking forward to replacing the holes. It's a Gold star brand TF03 -641 but still, much better than holes. The split panel trunk floor didn't give enough coverage for one rust spot near the back seat.
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Dear Don and mid-60s Buick restorers,
I picked up a full trunk floor today for a exceptional price. . . . .
Best of luck with your trunk repairs. Should you run into any snags, don't hesitate to ask for advice. The trunk floor is one of those place that can be particular difficult to fix, so take advantage of those who have come before you.
Cheers, Edouard
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I was able to bring the replacement frame home this weekend. Thanks Chuck and Loren! Sure are some good folks on this board. I ordered some Eastwood rust encapsulator products for internal and external frame coating. I'll take some photos of the progress and let you know how it works. Sealing the inside and outside seems like a good idea.
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Good to meet you Don and thanks for making the trip. Please do share lots of pictures as you progress.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Dear Don, Chuck, and mid-60s Buick restorers,
Congrats on obtaining the replacement frame - it is extremely hard to restore one of these cars without one! :laughing7:
. . . . Please do share lots of pictures as you progress.
x2!!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Made some repairs to the frame tonight. Rust encapsulator was shipped so just leaving frame in driveway until wirebrush/sand the surface rust off.
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Not my best welding but it is not going to be seen anyway. Now that it's repaired, ready for rust removal. I will be wearing a mask for that procedure.
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Glad it's cleaning up nicely for you Don. Good work!
Chuck
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Looks like you got a great start! Keep working away! That’s what I’m doing with my GS’s!
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Starting deconstruction over the holidays. So much rust but have a new frame and trunk floor so good start.
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Wow, rust city! No wonder you needed a new frame and other parts. Enjoy the journey and thanks for keeping us posted!
Enjoy a safe weekend!
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Dear Don, Chuck, and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Starting deconstruction over the holidays. So much rust but have a new frame and trunk floor so good start.
Wow! Your poor car is indeed in really tough shape. Thanks for the perseverance to take on a project like this!
Indeed keep us posted! Looks like you might be needing a little encouragement along the way!
Cheers, Edouard
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I've been drawn away from the project for a while but made some progress this weekend. I bought an SCT contour tool from Eastwood and enlisted my son to remove the rust from the frame. Not quite yet finished but plan to use rust encapsulator product when ready. I also will be coating the inside of the frame with the internal rust encapsulator. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. Still have lots of dismantling to do before separating the body from the old frame.
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Dear Don and mid-60s Buick restorers,
Thanks for the update! :thumbsup:
I've been drawn away from the project for a while but made some progress this weekend. I bought an SCT contour tool from Eastwood and enlisted my son to remove the rust from the frame.
Is this the tool you purchased?
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-contour-sct.html (https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-contour-sct.html)
It does look very capable.
Not quite yet finished but plan to use rust encapsulator product when ready. I also will be coating the inside of the frame with the internal rust encapsulator. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. Still have lots of dismantling to do before separating the body from the old frame.
Indeed do keep us posted! These rust encapsulators are really a game changer. Many, many years ago I was enlisted to help my dad repaint a boat trailer. We used the best Rustoleum products available at the time, but we couldn't remove all the rust. Within the year, the trailer was rusting again!
Thanks again!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Yes, that's the link. Free shipping and $30 lower price seemed like an ok deal. It does seem pretty good for a Chinese made tool. I bought some nylon abrasive bristle drums from amazon for half the Eastwood price, those are working nicely. I'll let everyone know how the finishing drums work when I get to that point. hoping that the stripping will be easier then. Also hoping encapsulating the outside and inside of the frame makes it last a really long time.
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I have been using Eastwood products for years. The inside frame encapsulator is fantastic. I used it also inside quarter panel access and inside doors. When I had my door and back seat panels removed I sprayed inside with the multi tip sprayer tube that comes with it. Make sure you buy extra because with the sprayer tube, cans empty much faster. The chassis paints / encapsulators are excellent too.
Sign up for emails too. Lots of deals and tips.
The Chicago area store is about a half hour away from me. I visit every month or so. They have cars shows in the parking lot a few times every year. It is a great place to browse the isles. :angel4:
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Enjoy the journey, Don. And kudos for having a son willing to join in the project. Should make it extra fun!
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Yes, this project is good therapy! Good memories of me and my father working on our Buick. When I start traveling again for work, I'll have to stop in the Chicago store and browse. I think that would be a good way to pass some time.
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Finally made some free time and finished my frame today. I coated the inside using the Eastwood encapsulator. It went smoother than I thought. Very runny consistency but that really allows it to spread inside. it has a 360 spray pattern so it worked really well.
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I also coated the outside using a similar product. now I can go back to disassembly. I'll still have to take the 2 brackets off my old manual frame and put on this frame. Going to have to take careful measurements of the Z bar so I can weld it correctly on the new frame. Any tips for placement?
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Went a little heavy on the crossmember coating. I think it will look ok when dry. Sure was pitted a lot and took quite a bit of work to make it look this good.
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Beautiful work Don! Hard to believe it's the same frame.
And don't forget that it won't look authentic if it doesn't have a few "factory runs" on the underside! :thumbsup:
Chuck
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Thanks for the update Don!
Keep up the progress!
Edouard
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Thanks, Chuck and Edouard. It was quite a transformation. I'm moving slower than most but I'll get there eventually.
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More hard work today. Now that the frame is coated, ready for more deconstruction. I removed the front bumper, both front fenders, both doors and both bucket seats today. Had to cut off a few bolts as they were rust welded together.
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The battery tray bolts were odd sized due to rust. I tried a 6 pt. and a metric socket with no luck. Eventually ground a deep slot in each head and was able to remove all the bolts with a huge screwdriver plus a cheater wrench. I still can't believe it worked. I was ready to grind all the heads off and drill out later. It was a good day of progress. My son was able to help for a few hours (bonus). He is going to inherit these cars someday, so it's good to have some sweat equity invested. Did I mention there is a lot of rust? (I mean a whole lot of rust!!) It is a bit overwhelming sometimes but every bit of progress helps me be encouraged.
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Nice work..
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Thanks, Bob. Next steps are removing radiator support and then pulling engine/transmission. Working my way toward removing the z-bar bracket and the equalizer bar bracket to put on the new frame.
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Good job!
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Thanks, Bob. Next steps are removing radiator support and then pulling engine/transmission. Working my way toward removing the z-bar bracket and the equalizer bar bracket to put on the new frame.
you're making great progress. the end result will make it all worthwhile.
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Dear Don, Bob, Jim, and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Congratulations on the progress! The car is looking better already.
I couldn't help but imagine what this car would be going through if it could think. It was clearly going to rust away and all of sudden it is being saved! If it could speak it would be certainly expressing a lot of gratitude!
Keep up the good work!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Good progress Don. Enjoy the disassembly process and remember, you can never have too many pictures when it comes time to put it back together. And have lots of Zip Locs on hand as well as some wire tags!
Enjoy the journey!
Chuck
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Good work Don . Its always nice to see progress in the winter months . Once you get the car disassembled a little bit further I'll have a few questions for you . Keep up the good work .
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Thanks for all the tips and encouragement! I'm careful to look for any scraps of paper documentation as I disassemble but no luck so far. I'll be happy to answer any questions that I can.
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I've been making some good progress lately. I have all the seats out and carpet now. the floor sheet metal is very bad but the bright spot is that the rear floor is fairly solid. The front floor and toe boards will have to be replaced. The 3 speed boot looks very different than a four speed boot. The 3 speed boot doesn't have the outer ring bezel to screw down and the shape is not exactly oval on the underside.
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A photo of the outer rocker, inner rocker and frame on drivers side. Lot's of metal work to be done. That new frame will be fantastic.
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I've been making some good progress lately. I have all the seats out and carpet now. the floor sheet metal is very bad but the bright spot is that the rear floor is fairly solid. The front floor and toe boards will have to be replaced. The 3 speed boot looks very different than a four speed boot. The 3 speed boot doesn't have the outer ring bezel to screw down and the shape is not exactly oval on the underside.
Don, that kinda looks like the boot in my (no console) '66 GS..... it's the one on the left. One on the right is the lower 'with console' boot that is avail as a repo. Mark once posted a different version of what we think is the early 65 boot. When was your car built?
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Walt, your original looks a lot like the repro boot I put in the Verde Howitzer with a 4-speed. It was the closest thing i could find for a non-console boot. It's a kit from Fusick, part no. SS6661KIT. They didn't sell the boot by itself, but after receiving the kit and trimming the boot to match the correct trim ring, it fit nicely. Perhaps an option for the 3-speed as well.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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I bought one of the Fusick boots as well. It's bigger than the earlier boot but does have the same design ('cept for the rectangular shift handle vs round).
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While it's true that the Fusick boot has a rectangular shape, it is very pliable and when installed on my round shifter it almost perfectly conformed to the round shape.
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Thanks guys! That is very good information. Sounds like Fusick is the way to go. Walt mine is a 3rd week of April build and a Flint built car.
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I found some markings on the LH side while disassembling. Looks like 22, I know it's hard to see from photos. even in person that first 2 is very faint.
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Thought I would add a photo of my Dearborn 3 speed tag. It reads HEG AD 010625. Those top two bolts are hard to get in order to remove the transmission. I haven't tried my shorty combination wrench or crows feet yet. The bolts are broken loose just can't get enough bite to turn and remove. I'm confident one of those options will work.
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Thanks Don . That helps me confirm everything ive found on them .
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Was able to very carefully drill out the stuck RH idle mixture screw in my original carb. This carb was so rough, I'm trying to bring back to life. All four jets are stuck too. I do have some parts carbs luckily. Have 3 more jets to drill out. I'm thinking I should pull out the aluminum plugs and replace as well..
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Update: I was able to carefully drill all the jets out and had replacements in my stash. Have to make sure all the brass particles are out before sealing this carb up.
On a even more positive note, I was able to pickup a parts car over the weekend. Now I'll be able to go back with factory metal in the floors and rear quarters. Can't tell how excited I was to find this car. Now I don't have to search for panels, just have to spend time carefully drilling out all the spot welds. I'll try to snap some photos when I can. Sometimes you get lucky as this was a perfect match to what I needed. It didn't have the parts I don't need and all the parts I do need were good. I'll probably sell the trim and all items I don't need in the future.
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Hi did your parts car have a vinyl top I'm looking for the lower trim pieces.jim
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No, unfortunately it did not have a vinyl top. This was a skylark with the halo molding.
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Dear Don, Jim, and mid-60s Buick restorers,
. . . On a even more positive note, I was able to pickup a parts car over the weekend. Now I'll be able to go back with factory metal in the floors and rear quarters.
. . .
Sometimes you get lucky as this was a perfect match to what I needed.
Congratulations! :hello2: We all need a lucky break now and then!
Cheers, Edouard
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There's a trick used to get out the jets on the AFB's.
Tom T.
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Edouard, no doubt. We all needs breaks.
Tom, I sure hope the engine isn't as bad as the carb. The bowls were caked with silt. I had to rod out all the air bleeds and the fuel passages. Drilling was the last resort...after heat and trying to at least start with a punch. I was hoping the LH bits would just pull the jets right out but they resisted all the way.
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The spot welding kit I ordered came in today. I'll let you know how it works.
https://www.eastwood.com/mig-spot-weld-kit.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAprGRBhBgEiwANJEY7I8hcNcH2siHHhSRn9MAxy4uTVBZ6-wrEI8V03ppssQJ13NoXXm5xBoCsmkQAvD_BwE&wickedid=414358555876&wickedsource=google&wv=3.1 (https://www.eastwood.com/mig-spot-weld-kit.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAprGRBhBgEiwANJEY7I8hcNcH2siHHhSRn9MAxy4uTVBZ6-wrEI8V03ppssQJ13NoXXm5xBoCsmkQAvD_BwE&wickedid=414358555876&wickedsource=google&wv=3.1)
Still need to buy a spot weld cutter to take the panels off my parts car. The harbor freight one is $4.99 but probably doesn't work great or last. I'm thinking about the Blair annular style cutter. the Blair seems more robust. Does anyone have some experience to share?
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Don Ive had a few but none of them last real long . I bought one from auto value that i liked the best just because it came with several cutters and centering pins . Also had a blue point that seemed to cut really fast but the teeth seemed to break off easy .
Which ever one you get just get plenty of extra cutters and centering pins .
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Thanks for the advice, much appreciated!
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Hi Don, When I was working on my GS post coupe I needed to cut out some spot welds. So I gave the HF spot weld cutter a try, I picked up several packages thinking that they would not last. But I was surprised that it worked with no problems. I did not put too much pressure on it, and I used some light cutting oil to lube and cool the cut. So you may want to try it before buying the Blair.
Tony :thumbsup:
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Thanks Tony! I probably should have given them a try. things work better when lubricated properly. I went ahead and bought the made in USA Blair cutters. Since I'm disassembling this parts car, I'll be drilling lots of holes and needed something that lasts.
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I've had mixed results with the various spot weld cutters as well. I did try the Blair but I sorta recall chipping a tooth or two off within the first day of use. Or maybe I kept breaking the 1/8" drill bit it uses. I'll have to dig it out and take a look.
I usually just use a standard drill, being careful how deep I drill.
I do recommend getting a Seam splitter, Seam Buster, or Spot weld chisel. It's avail from several manufacturers such as Steck, Eastwood or Lisle.
It's basically just a thin (and tough!) chisel you use to break the remaining spot weld after you drill it.
https://steckmfg.com/product/20015_seambuster/
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Thanks for the info Walt. I did buy exactly that seam splitter, supposed to arrive today.
I've been disassembling the parts car this week. I'm trying to get to just the shell so I can start drill and removing body panels. Once all those parts are catalogued, then I'll go back to tearing down the GS and getting those bad panels removed.
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Another method I used is to drill a hole in the center of the spot weld and drill trough the pieces you are trying to separate! I then took a stepper bit and drilled through the panels! This doesn’t work for all areas but is another tool that can be used! Take your time the less distortion and ripping of panels that you have is less work to repair and prep that is needed to attach the panels!Good luck with your project and keep the updates and questions coming!
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Thanks, I did see a you tube video of that method. There is really a wealth of knowledge here from everyone. My heartfelt thanks to all.
After some help for everyone here and some research, I'm planning to have 2 drills ready. One with a small center drill and the other with my Blair spot weld cutter. I'll start a small hole to keep the spot weld bit from walking. This is more time consuming but that should keep the hole and distortion to a minimum. I may change my mind after beginning this task and see how it plays out.
This began because I looked at the cost of replacing all the flooring, inner and outer rockers, rear quarter, inner and outer wheel wells, rear trunk channel, and lower fender panels. I found a nearly rust free skylark for much less money than buying all the panels. Plus it's the original type sheet metal not thinner reproduction metal. Not to mention, all the things that aren't reproduced.
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I haven't made much progress on the 3 speed, as my convertible's transmission went out. I had to focus on that car for a bit. Anyway, I was able to remove all the manual transmission brackets and linkages. Here is a photo of the frame brackets with etching primer. I'm near the point where I can remove the body from the rusted frame and start R&R the panels. I thought I might record dimensions of these brackets for posterity if nothing else. That compound radius would be hard to duplicate but probably not needed to be perfect for mounting since it is welded to the frame.
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Thanks Don for the update!
Sorry that you have been busy with other car projects. However, the driving season is drawing to a close. Perhaps you'll have more time to work on the 3 speed this autumn.
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Made a little progress on the parts car. I'll use the floors, rear wheel wells and trunk floor as well as any other patches I need. I had forgotten how nice the trunk and wheel wells were.
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Good work, Don. Keep us posted on progress!
:cheers2:
Chuck
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looks like a nice solid trunk . Ya don't find those everyday .
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Now that snow is approaching iits time to dust off the tools and have a different type of fun.Jim
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Thanks for the update Don!
Edouard
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Should be really nice when done!
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Don, please post some photos of the restoration.
Tony
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Sorry for not posting in a while. I have made some progress this summer on my project. I have pulled out the drivetrain so I can seperate the body from the rotted frame. I've have carefully disassembled the number matching engine without damaging anything. That was a miracle since the engine would not turnover when I began. Over several weeks I kept oiling all the components with Kroil and just tried to move the flywheel back and forth a bit at a time. After three weeks i was able to turn the engine enough to remove all the pistons and rods. the bearings and crank look good with not much wear. I'm so happy about being able to save the number matching engine and not have to use sleeves. My next task will be to seperate the body and put on the rotisserie. I was able to buy a crane with the 20% off coupon so I can remove by myself. The new body bushings arrived (from ground-up SS396.com) so I can populate in the new frame and make it ready to recieve the repaired body, whenever it is done. The photo is after I took out the first 2 pistons.
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Hi Don and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Congratulations on saving so much of the engine! You certainly had a difficult task so it is great that finally the engine responded to your "gentle persuasion."
Keep up the good work!
Edouard
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Great job Don, The best asset anyone can have when working on these vintage Buicks is patience ! You took your time and used the right chemical. I picked up a coded 65 GS motor back in 2010 from a western PA junkyard It was also stuck, every couple of days I poured kerosene on the pistons. after about a month it broke loose and I was able to turn the crank.
Keep up the great work and post plenty of photos.
Tony :thumbsup:
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Thanks guys! I try to live by the old addage...How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time, of course.
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Good save?.I never heard of Kroil til recently?.pretty expensive but well worth it. Any time you can save a block from a 401 you have done well. I had a 455 Pontiac that I literally put 8 sleeves in because it took a sledge hammer to get it apart. Guy had left it in the rain for years and it was original to the car. There were a few cylinders so rusty that I sandblasted them just to see where to hammer. My machinist now has several sets of honing stones that we use before we take any measurements. I believe these 401 pistons are available in increments other than .030 and .060. I am doing a DZ302 and we found some .040 that save it from being bored further than necessary. Hopefully yours will go with minimal oversized.