65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Classifieds => Part & Car Leads => Topic started by: schlepcar on January 03, 2015, 09:06:39 PM
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Decent project on e-bay as a four speed, but I 'm thinking it was a three speed car. I am not so sure that that is a bad thing. How many of these are still around?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261716339969 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261716339969)
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You are correct--per the codes on the firewall tag, that was originally a 3-speed manual car. The 4-speed the owner says he has for sale that is "correct" is not the correct one per the spline counts he gave. Correct one has 10 spline input, and 27 spline output. (guessing he just mis-counted when he said 9). 10 spline output came on the pre-64 T10s.
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Yea...the car is definitely a project,but that looks like a CHEVY 12 bolt and it is just too cheap not to buy if someone is close to it. If that is a factory tilt column, it is worth more than the car is bringing. I think these cars are highly desirable to a lot of people if they are DONE,but I am not sure that us PROJECT guys are up for this particular task. Without the original driveline pieces it may just get parted.
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It's not the correct tilt column either. If you look closely, it's a collapsible shaft, so it's later than a 1967. Can't tell if it has an ignition switch on the column. Anyone recognize those tilt/turn lever knobs?
There is too much missing on this car:
Nailhead engine mounts, adapters, and exhaust manifolds.
The 401 MT or LT engine isn't included, and likely doesn't have the correct GS oil pan or ex manifolds.
Clutch linkage.... z-bar and related. Which won't work with the EELCO bellhousing anyway.
Wrong steering column. I wonder if anything was butchered to make it fit? It's a larger dia than the 65-66.
Engine wiring harness was 'modified' for the 455.
Firewall seam is bondo'd up to make it smooth.
No trunk pic.... is it rusted? Not many floor pics either. Is that dark spot on the pass side floor by the vent a hole or a wet spot? We see the rusted roof.
The biggest unanswered question is how much rust there is.
The only real value in this thing is the 12 bolt rear, and possibly the body/frame (with the 3-speed manual trim tag) if it's not too rusted out.
The guy that wrote in and said it would be a $40,000 car after a $15,000 investment must be a friend of the seller. A $40,000 investment is likely to produce a $25,000 car in today's market.
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Correct engine code for a '65 GS is "LR" and we have documented some '65 GS with the "LT" code.
M, code is '66
Looking at the rust in the roof, it would most likely be easier to put a different roof on and the trunk probably is in bad shape.
$25,K would be a stretch for a NOM car, I think. Missing way too many things to make it a good investment to restore.
Loren
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This really makes that white 4 speed car that just sold for about $14k look like a great deal!
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That is funny that you mention the 40k investment being a 25k car....I agree that the post on his ad is definitely his friend. If you read it there is the mention that it is a 4 speed car with tilt column according to the trim tag. I see no such options on the tag,and it is definitely early 70's levers on that column. At any rate...bucket seats,12 bolt,frame,and all the smalls would still be nice to have for cheap. If you want a real laugh look at the 69 trans am on e-bay. I don't see anyone restoring these cars that are missing every rare and valuable piece that is needed. I am more of a capilist than a socialist,so I wish them lots of luck.
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The first question sounds like it was written by the seller.
"Put $15k into it and you have a $40-50K car!" That made me chuckle. 15k might get you to the point of having collected the 10k missing parts so you could start on it.
Mark
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$1500. Was it worth that?
Mark
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Hi Mark . I,m new on here and was wondering the same thing .
It does appear it has a chevelle differential in it . I bought a 71 GS this summer and have always liked buicks.
John Zimmerman mn.
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I think the car was well bought if you did not have to go far to get it. It looked like someone robbed all the good stuff a long time ago. A nice frame is getting hard to find and that looked like it had some pretty decent trim and sheet metal. I know every time I sell a part I can't replace it for what I sell it for. It would be nice if someone put the car back together.
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Are a lot of the parts for a 65GS hard to find or are they just kind of pricey ?
I wouldn't think a roof would be real hard to find .
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Lots of stuff for a 65 GS are hard to find. In this case, the car needs the 65-66 GS engine mounts and adapter plates, exhaust manifolds, and the extremely hard to find bellhousing and clutch linkage. Maybe the rear sump oil pan too.
Chrome is tough too. Bumpers can be rechromed, but the taillights will be real expensive to have redone. Ditto for grille and headlight doors.
Roof can be replaced, that's mostly labor $$. Floors and trunk are repo'd, so that's labor $$ too.
Interior soft materials are repo'd, but again, good chrome must be located.
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Well if the car really is what it was really listed as it will be put back together as close to original as possible because I won the auction :thumbsup: . I'm not going out to pick it up till the engine and trans are listed just in case I buy them also . I was just hoping I wasn't bidding against someone here .
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Hi John,
Welcome to the 65 GS forum. What is your plan for the car? There is a great group of 65 owners near you.
Let us know how we can help.
Mark
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Thanks Mark .
First I plan to go out and inspect the car because I asked him a couple questions and he never got back to me on them .
Number 1 , I asked if he had a clear title that matched the cars vin .
Number 2 if the frame was boxed . ( from what I understand it is supposed to be .)
But anyway I do plan on doing a full restoration on it . I do have many projects that I'm working on already but I want to start collecting all the parts that are missing for the car .
I go to a lot of swap meets around the country . Actually going to one this coming weekend in Sioux Falls SD
I would love to meet up with buick guys in the area to chat , and find out more about these 65 gs cars .
Cars is all I really know but until the last 5 or so years I couldn't really afford to own an older muscle car .
But times are good for me now so I'm buying a few of my favorites .
So with that said I welcome any good advice on this project .
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John,
Chances are the frame is the right one. All 65 GS cars used the convertible frame.
By a full restoration, do you mean back to stock/original?
I can tell you from my experience that swap meets likely won't have what you'll need for this project. There might be something here & there you'll pickup, but the pickins are pretty slim from my experience lately. And you need to know what to look for.
That all being said, and just looking at the photos of the car, you'll need;
a late (64-66) 401 with a rear sump oil pan
65-66 GS exhaust manifolds
All the 65-66 GS clutch linkage parts, bellhousing, T-10 trans (it is not a Super T-10), shifter, etc.
8.2 rear end from a regular 65 Skylark which would fit, or a correct 65 GS/Sportwagon rear
65-66 GS engine mount plates, mounts, and frame towers
65 GS floor shift steering column
65 GS engine & starter wiring harnesses
4 speed or 3 speed driveshaft (depending on what trans you want)
65 GS specific left side battery brackets
65 GS radiator
65 GS fuel line brackets (bolt to pan)
all the right engine accessories and accessory brackets, hardware, etc.
Hard to find bits;
front bumper/parking light bezels/housings, etc.
decent tailight housings
rear tri-shield emblem
hood ornament
rocker mouldings
decent door panel emblems
decent inst. panel sections (the big die cast parts - there are 2)
good dash pad
arm rests & bases
grilles/headlight bezels
horn relay - looks like your car has that
correct core support "X" braces - if they are missing
That's just a list off the cuff. Since there is so much trim that is potmetal or diecast, it almost always needs to be rechromed.
Which can get expensive. And you'll need to find a rust free top.
You should make sure it has no title issues before going out there.
Mark
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I would like to get it back to as original as possible , a lot of times what I will do is do all the body work , start putting it back together and running so I can drive and enjoy it while searching for the rest of the correct parts .
Thanks for the list of parts to start with . I'm actually bidding on a set of engine mounts right now on e bay that bolt to the frame . ( hope there the right ones ) .
But yes the title is definitely gonna be the first item .
If I could get info from some of you guys on here that would great when I get that far .
Thanks
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John, congrats on the new project. I have a 3 speed 66 GS for parts if you need something, I may have it. Not far from you either.
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Hey thanks Jim , when I get the car back here I'll maybe get in touch with you . I get through Mankato fairly often , I sometimes have a guy down there at Auto value do some machine work for me . (His name is Tom )
I'm hoping I made a good purchase , I actually thought the car was gonna go for a little more money than it did .
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Good purchase....DO NOT just sell that 12 bolt. Look at the date and codes,it may be worth what you paid for the car. If it is a 65-7 you may be onto something.I know we are into Buicks,but some of the CHEVY stuff is getting slim pickings. Congrats on a good deal,Dan
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Thanks Dan . I did notice the rear end and actually took that into consideration when bidding because I know what those early 12 bolt chevelle rear ends are bringing . I even asked the owner about that but he never got back to me .
I'm actually hoping its a factory 373 or 411 gear in it . $$$$$
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:thumbsup:
congrads on saving another 65. Allthough there is a LOT of work ahead of you. The orig. colors were Verde Green/ with a Black interior & Black vinyl top. If top has to be replaced a 65 Tempest/GTO would work just fine. biggest prob. $$$$$$.
Al :icon_salut:
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Thanks Al . In my world any old muscle car with a 4 or 3 speed is worth saving ( especially a buick )
Looks like a pretty big project but fortunately for me I do have the time and I'm totally ok with spending the money . Appreciate all the info from u guys thanks a lot . Look forward to meeting u guys .
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I know Tom. Let me know if you get to Mankato.
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John,
This looks like a great project. No need to be intimidated. My body was MUCH worse when i started and I won an award 14 months after I bought mine off of ebay. I also have some of the parts you might need lying around my shop. I am just West of Minneapolis Please keep us informed as to when you get the car home. I would love to see it and I am sure that Mark feels the same way. I am certain you will find lots of help on this website. Have fun.
Rob K
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Thanks Rob . I will let all you guys know when I get it home . I'm planning on going out there next weekend if everything works out .
I did talk to him thru e mail a little bit and he did ask if I was interested in buying the engine and trans , I'm sure there's a lot of variables but what do you think a good price would be for them ?
I know I need to look for a rear sump pan , anything else ?
I'm not real familiar with nail heads so could use some advice from you all or someone one this .
Are the 401 cores hard to find ?
Thanks
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Well guys I just got off the phone with the owner of the 65 gs and he does have a clean , clear title so I paid him .
I'm gonna check the engine out when I get out there . But I'm a little confused on the trans. He says it is correct for the car and that he had a Buick guru come out and verify the trans . Says it has the correct date code dual shifter mount and GS symbol on the tail shaft which I might not have a problem with BUT he and the buick guru say its rare because it has 8 input splines and 8 on the output shaft , I've never heard of that on any trans let alone a buick t10 .
ANY THOUGHTS ?
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Only two types in GM that year,fine or coarse....10 spline or 26. I saw the pics and it looks like a correct 10 spline GS trans. Anybody know the guy in Ohio that had the complete GS motor? I believe his name is Chris. I have also heard that 3-speed cars were faster than four speed cars because the gearing was too close in the T-10. I think if I was not doing a numbers match car it would be a 425 dual quad setup. It would not be any cheaper to build a 401.
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He says it is correct for the car and that he had a Buick guru come out and verify the trans . Says it has the correct date code dual shifter mount and GS symbol on the tail shaft which I might not have a problem with BUT he and the buick guru say its rare because it has 8 input splines and 8 on the output shaft , I've never heard of that on any trans let alone a buick t10 .
ANY THOUGHTS ?
It was mentioned in post #2 that the pre-1964 trans had 10 splines on the output shaft.
EDIT: I see some 63-64 transmissions on eBay with fine spline output shafts.
The tailshaft with 'GS' on it was used 65-66 in the Skylark GS and even some of the big cars. The date on it is the casting date. I think they only made 2 or 3 batches during the whole year.... one in December and one in March.
It's very possible someone blew up the original box, swapped in an earlier one, and put the GS tail on it.
There would be other codes stamped on the box giving the build date. My 4 speeds even had the vin stamped on the top of the rear bearing support plate located between the main box and the tail housing.
The GS used a special gear set, it can be identified by 3 grooves cut into the splines, just in front of the bearing retainer.
There's been a GS 4 speed trans for sale here in Pa for over a year.... at $1500, it's above market value.
http://lancaster.craigslist.org/pts/4824509157.html (http://lancaster.craigslist.org/pts/4824509157.html)
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Yeah I have a bunch of 4 speeds with the numbers on the bearing plate . Told him I'd look at it when I picked up the car so we,ll see .
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Anybody know the guy in Ohio that had the complete GS motor? I believe his name is Chris.
I've heard of him.. really good guy from what I'm told. :wave:
Chris
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If the trans has the 10 spline output shaft, it is not correct for a 65 GS. !0 spline input is correct. As someone mentioned, it could have been swapped in place of the original shaft when there was a failure in the trans. The 10 spline shaft is an inferior design. The splines are deper and it takes more meat out of the shaft when they are cut. As a result, most all of the 10 spline shafts have a twist in them from torque over the years. The twist starts right at the end of where the slip yoke stops. What then happens is when you hit a bump, the suspension compresses, and the driveshaft slides forward, and the yoke binds on the twisted splines. Causes vibration problems and causes premature failure of the u-joints.
Take some good pics of the trans when you are out there and post them here, We can help you identify what it is.
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Thanks guys for the info. I'll try and get some photos . When I talked to him he did say he found some other parts for the car , front bumper , some more trim radiator I think .
What I would like to know if someone has it is the part # or casting # of the bell housing since this seems to be a hard part to find .
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Anybody know the guy in Ohio that had the complete GS motor? I believe his name is Chris.
I've heard of him.. really good guy from what I'm told. :wave:
Chris
I think many here have heard of this guy. LOL
Chris is the person that gave life to this board, Thank you, Chris!
As many have said, Welcome John! :hello2:
Loren
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Thanks Chris for starting this forum. :thumbsup: .
I see your in ohio ! It's been 3or 4 years now but I went to a few swap meets out there in canton area (fair grounds I think ) .
I think it was called Dave and Ed,s . Boy was that a drive !
John
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Thanks Loren , pleasures all mine .
Again I appreciate all you guys sharing with me the knowledge you have about these cars .
I've always been into old cars since I was a young kid . Guess I was born into it , used to watch my uncles race around my grandpas hay field with old hot rods the used to put together from his private collection .
One of them I still remember to this day was a 29 model A that my uncle Bob put a old Hemi in .
( still had the mechanical shocks and brakes ) Guess he just wanted to go fast .
Haha lol I can't tell you how many times he rolled that thing !!!
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35chevcoupe,
Welcome to the forum. Mark posted a Craigslist ad for a guy selling parts from the Chicago area. He has a lot of stuff that he's getting rid of. I know you had mentioned that the trim tag shows your car to be a 3-speed manual, I'm not sure whether or not he's got the parts you need for that but he's worth a try. His name is Ken.
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Thanks Jonesy ! I did see the ad and plan on calling him tonight or tomorrow to see what all he has .
Thanks again !
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Anybody see the 1963 Nailhead-powered boat the GS guy has for sale?
Sure would look cool behind that GS you're buying John!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261720253987?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261720253987?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
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Hey Walt that would look kinda Kool , I can just imagine that old boat with an old blown nailhead in it !
I better quit thinking about this or it just might happen :nono:
And my wife is very understanding with old cars . But a boat :violent1:
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John,
When you finally get your Gran Sport home, how about some pictures and get it entered in the registry.
It's always great to see another one being saved.
Loren
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Ok....lol.....I am a moron,I was not aware that this was the same Chris that had the 401 engine advertised. I guess the twenty dollar question is Did it sell? It was the only one that I had seen advertised in quite awhile. I guess I will log onto the corvette site and see if anyone ever heard of Zora Duntov . Sorry,Chris, I guess I know your from Ohio now,Dan
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Hey Loren I will definitely do that . I'm already getting anxious to get on the road , but don't leave till next Thursday . I'm in Sioux Falls SD at a swapmeet this weekend searching for more Golden nuggets .
I've already decided that I'm going to move this car to the front of my list of cars to get finished .
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This really makes that white 4 speed car that just sold for about $14k look like a great deal!
that car sold for 12500 and it wqas a steal! dont even know if i would restore it .thats how nice it is
Nice project BTW looks like the front grille and some other hard to find stuff is descent shape
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Ok....lol.....I am a moron,I was not aware that this was the same Chris that had the 401 engine advertised. I guess the twenty dollar question is Did it sell? It was the only one that I had seen advertised in quite awhile. I guess I will log onto the corvette site and see if anyone ever heard of Zora Duntov . Sorry,Chris, I guess I know your from Ohio now,Dan
Until I own exclusivity on the name "Chris" how was you to know? :laughing7: All is good :icon_thumright:
I finally threw in the towel and decided to keep it as a spare for my car. I received a lot of interest in it but the cost of shipping it and the concerns regarding internal condition seemed to keep everyone away. Between the rarity of the GS specific parts on the engine I felt justified the price but many guys wanted a fully rebuilt and tested complete engine for a grand.
Chris
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I thought it was worth mentioning because of all the rare externals. Some of us had to get that reality check of rebuilding a stock 350 CHEVY before realizing the cost of doing a buick,pontiac,etc...I USED to be able to do a small block correctly for less than a grand. My friend just put $6800 into a 400 buick with some aftermarket pieces,but it is basically stock. I was very fortunate to have most of the pieces and machine work done on my 401 when I bought it in project form.
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Hey John!! As many have related here... NICE FIND! You definitely have yourseff surrounded with 65 Gurus!!! I am kinda a 'newbie" altho I've been restoring Buicks for 45+ years, mostly 70-72 stuff. I have several 65 Parts cars, and a recently stumbled upon a 65 GS coupe with 54K orignal miles. (I believe its in Members Rides posted on this forum)
I have not been a very good monitor of this website because I am busy selling off ANYTHING/EVERYTHING 70-72 RELATED on other Buick sites..however, I have frame mounts, long brackets, a few 65-66 exhaust manifolds and a lot more 65 stuff too.
I will try to do better to monitor this thread... Untill next time, I wish you the best!
Wheelz, Tampa Bay
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Hey Wheelz , thank you . You say your selling off some 70 - 72 stuff , I am also looking for some stage 1 heads for my 71 GS . Do you happen to have anything like that ?
Thanks John E.
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Well. . my handwritten scribbly notes tell me I have a decent set of original 70 heads... dont think they are stage one.. ..I have (2) aluminum B4B intakes _ 1 is NOS, a bunch of misc QJ carbs... nos core support, very nice used innerfenderwells NO RUST and perfect rustfree doors.. If any of that stuff interests you email me direct: PenWheelz2@ij.net
Wheelz, Tampa Bay
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We'll guys I made it home from Oregon safe and sound .
With that being said I am very happy with the car for the price I paid .
Haven't had a lot of time to spend on it yet but the floor pan is very clean with no rust .
The rear end was the first thing I checked out and is definitely out of a 66 chevelle 12 bolt posi with 3:73 gears . The thing that is strange is there are 2 large brackets bolted to the rear end housing to raise the upper trailing arms ( suppose to control wheel hop ) , I've never seen those before .
I'm very excited to start rounding up parts .
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Great to hear you got it home safely!
Did you get the 4 speed trans too? The one I told you about is still available (not mine).
Those No-hop bars supposedly work well. I've got a 12 bolt rear in my blue '66 too.
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hey Walt . I did not get the trans from him , couple reasons (1) I think I'm gonna put a 3 speed in it since I was told that is what it originally came with . (2) he wanted 1,500.00 for it and it seemed a little high but maybe it wasn't .
He did have some stuff I may get later though .