65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Projects & Restorations => Projects & Restorations => Topic started by: Robk on August 12, 2009, 08:01:30 PM
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I bought this car in May after about a year long search for a 4spd convertible. While it is pretty rusty certain parts on the car are in surprisingly good shape. The motor had very little wear. I paid $3000 for the car which may be too much but it's the only 4spd vert I ever saw. If I am sucessful with the photo attachments, you see the car as it was delivered, the interior and the project getting under way. The only part that was missing was the carburetor and i now have a nice 3921 which will work. The last photo of the car with the gold front end is a skylark I bought off of Craigslist for parts. I now have five nice front fenders in addition to the rusty ones that came with my GS. The rebuild on the engine and tranny are underway (tranny came out this week) and the body is coming off the frame so i can get to the rough spots on the frame and splice in a few areas of the skylark frame. I am going to need a lot of advice in the next 9 months (yep that's my schedule), and i hope i don't drive you guys nuts. I'll post more photos as i go. Rob Keena
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Here is my donor skylark mentioned above. Rob K
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Hi Rob. Your car is spectacular. It's worth what you want to pay. I paid almost twice that for a 4 speed coupe. Which is on a rotisserie with the frame complete and on the side.
Keep us posted.
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Rob,
Awesome! Keep the pics coming. $3000 was not too much for that car. I can't believe you found a 3921. I've been looking for 18 years! 9 months is aggressive, why that time frame?
Mark
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Mark,
The time frame is for one reason and one reason only. I want to drive this thing! I figure most of the snow will be gone in May.
Rob K
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It has to come apart before it goes back together. Goes on the rotisserie next week. Anybody got any rocker panel trim?
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Rob
Be very carefull on the floorboards around the shifter hole.
When you pullup the OLD tar insulation LOOK for a build sheet.
I found a part of one in that location stuck to the tar paper.
Although mine was pretty well deterioted, I could still make out some codes.
Al
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Rob,
I have two pretty nice rocker mouldings for one side. Can't remember which side, but I've got ya covered for that. I hope your keeping all the nuts-n-bolts organized for that thing!
Mark
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Mark,
Definitely saving the nuts and bolts. separate labeled containers, etc.
I'm surprised to hear that the build sheet could be under the the tar insulation. I did not find it in the rear seat so i was hoping it might turn up inside one of the doors. I will re-look under the insulation (which is still in the car). Believe it or not i even had rust at the shifter hole. The hole (and driver's side floor) is about 35% trashed. I have no choice but to do a fair amount of grafting from my skylark. Leaky convertibles!
Rob K
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Nice project Rob! Keep the pics coming.
The repo 64-67 Chevelle shifter humps are 99% identical to the GS ones.
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Walt,
That's very helpful thanks. I was going to try to get one made by using my old one as a template, but that would not be easy.
I found a chevelle hump on the web but the shape seems more square than my original. I have no console in my car. This is what I found:
http://www.opgi.com/product.asp?catmainid=1&topcatid=26&chapterid=26&GrpCode=15291&ProdCode=A62551B&yearrange=
It also says "64-72", which doesn't agree with your post. Anybody have a good site to get a correct reproduction for chevelle? Thanks!
Rob K
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Try this one for 64-67 WITH console:
http://www.opgi.com/product.asp?ProdCode=PAN0222&topcatid=26&grpcode=10744&yearrange=&chapterid=26&topvalue=0&newflag=0
I bought mine from Ground Up. They're here in the NE. Only $40 from them. PN RST-76D
http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=chevellecamino&Product_Code=RST-76D&Category_Code=SHIFTERHUMPS
Here it is next to my original 66 GS. my original is a bit bent up from a previous Hurst shifter install.
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Things are moving along with my 65. Quarters are now welded in place as well as floors. Next comes the trunk and then clean up work at the various rusty intersections. I'll admit that I am merely a gopher when it comes to this phase of the project. It helps to have a close friend who owns a body shop and loves old cars.
I am having a real heck of a time finding any differences between my skylark convertible frame and either of my (much worse condition) GS frames. I have two GS frames, one of which is original and totally trashed from which I salvage the 4spd components. Neither GS frame had any numbers whatsoever. All three frames are boxed. I am wondering if the fact that my skylark donor was a convertible means that it had no differences with a GS frame. Here is a photo of my skylark convert frame and my recently acquired GS frame (which also has no numbers and appears to have no differences with the skylark convert frame). The skylark convert frame came from Nevada and is VERY clean and I would be glad to use it with contributions from the GS frame but none of can see any differences. Anyone know if we are missing something? Any ideas appreciated. In the photos below, the skylark frame is the one indoors on the blocks and the GS frame is outside on the trailer.
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Rob, the vin number is stamped in the left rear rail on top by the body mount
where your wheel well is! I am surprised that you can not see it on the Nevada
frame, the others will be gone or not able to see with the rust!I will try and post a pic of one!The only difference I have seen in the frames is the extra plate on the cross brace and I think some of the non gs convert frames had this
anyway! The parts books that I have show the same part number for the frames? Jon
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Rob, I've been meaning to take a closer look at my 65 GS frame vs a 66 'lark vert frame, I've just been too busy.
But I do have some pics on file from my 66 GS.
I'm not clear on what they mean by the 'triangular brace' on the GS frame, maybe it's this?
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The frame part number is on the left side rear frame rail, near the rear bumper bracket:
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Th VIN is also stamp on top of the frame rail under the left rocker panel. Gets pretty rusty there too, and hard to see, if not impossible. Rob, if you can find the part number on the Skylark convert frame, please post.
Mark
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You can see the triangular brace in this picture--it fits in the front corner of where the rear crossmember meets the frame--gussets the crossmember to the frame with the welded in triangle since the crossmember is just riveted in. It was to keep the force of the upper control arms from weakening the riveted joints. Note that I have a set of the dealer installed rear crossmember braces on my chasis in this picture--the link that goes between the upper and lower control arm bolts--don't let that confuse you when looking at it.
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Interesting.....my 65 GS 'vert frame does not have that reinforcement.
And it's a 4 speed car, built August '65 in Baltimore.
Here's a file pic....65 GS 'vert frame in black, 66 'lark 'vert frame in primer.
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Thanks for posting the picture Brian, I was about ready to crawl under my car to snap a picture of the brace.
I've only seen this extra brace on the 65 GS convertible frame and neither of my 4 speed frames have it.
Chris
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Boy this is helpful. I thought I was going nuts. None of my cars have this brace. Frankly I am just glad to hear that some have it and some don't, as it confirms that I am not blind. That brace seems to make sense. Maybe I'll make one. I think I am going to need a toothbrush to find any signs of those numbers.
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The frame part number is on the left side rear frame rail, near the rear bumper bracket:
Walt
I assume the top #'s are the build date of the frame?
My 65 # are 155N2= jan. 5, 65? There is no spacing between the #'s.
thanks
Al
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My frame does not have the brace as shown in Brian's pic.
Rob, you're probably going to have to employ a stiff wire brush to uncover those numbers, I'm not sure a tooth brush will make a dent!
Mark
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Here is the latest on my car. The floor is in place with finish work remaining. The after market product actually went in nice.
The rear quarters are a combination of the skylark rear clip and lower quarters off my junk hardtop. Note that we used a piece of front Buick special fender to finish the edge on the driver's side quarter. My close friend and body man does very nice work and everything I have seen him do turns out smooth as glass. He has done mostly mustangs but he is enjoying helping me with my car as the first car he ever owned was a 67 GS.
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Rob, looks great! keep up the hard work! Jon :headbang:
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Here's the latest on my car. I can't even remember where all the rust went. Spending most of my time hunting down the little things such as chrome and wheel refinishing, trunk latches, etc. Also starting the re-finishing work on the frame soon as the body is going to need a place to sit. I still have an extra GS frame which I won't be using, if anyone wants to come up to the Twin Cities and take a look.
Rob K
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Rob, your ride is really looking nice!
I'm dyeing to know what you'll have wrapped up in body work when he's all done.
If it's reasonable, I have enough projects around here to keep him busy for a really long time!
I'd seriously be willing to trailer my cars there to have this guy metal finish them like he's done yours.
Please pass on our compliments to your body guy,
Chris
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Chris,
Thanks for the encouragement. I'll pass on the compliments to Mike. It remains to be seen what the total cost is as the frame is not done, but he's a good friend so I'm pretty fortunate on that front.
One question to all: I stopped by the shop today to pick up some chrome and visit the car and we went through the GM info on Flame Red and it lists three different mixes. Two are very bright and one is slightly more muted. My hood, which has not been touched yet seemed to match the muted mix. Anybody know anything about why GM has three flame red mixes? I like the muted tone better but I have seen some very bright red flame red cars out there.
Thanks Rob Keena
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passenger side view in primer
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Rob,
This is probably something that our buddy John E. can help with since he's already been down this road with his flame red convertible.
I know that the original 65 flame red that I've seen looks almost brownish in color when under indoor lighting however once you get it out in the sun it really brightens up.
I think a lot of guys are painting their cars the brighter reds that you could get on the Pontiac's of the time. There's nothing wrong with that however if original is what you're after, it's not the correct color.
Personally I'd try to match the red as close to possible to any of the original paint you have and go with one of the newer base coat clear coat systems. The finished job will outshine and outlast the original paint.
http://65gs.com/Colors/flamered.htm
Chris
Chris
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Thanks again Chris.
I had not seen that page with the colors. I think the more muted mix might actually be the correct one. That's really helpful.
I'll shoot a couple of photos with the various mixes next week if they are still available. The photos i posted today are actually a couple of weeks old. My body man is actually further along. The tail light crud has been cleaned up and most of the firewall has been repaired or replaced with the GS wall. My GS had, not only floor rot, but rot that extended upward on the driver side firewall near the door and there was a hole on the passenger side as well. As the photos i will post next week show, it's all done but needs to be painted. The front of the skylark body had problems of it's own so the swap worked well. Plus my GS winshield was perfect. Firewall will be painted along with the underside next week. Photos to come of that along with my wheels.
I was lucky enough to see Mark Ascher's car yesterday. Wow. He has set a real standard.
Rob
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It's coming along nicely Rob! You're lucky to have found a good metalman.
I have 2 66's in Flame Red. Both were repainted. But door jambs, and underside of trunk lids are still original paint.
The original hue is on the dark side with a slight purple hue. On the Special, I used PPG base/clear. Closest match was a 90's Ford truck stripe red.
It's difficult to get a picture that shows the correct hue. Both repaints are a little off. The GS is brighter with a slight orange hue, and the Special is close but darker and a wee bit too much purple compared to the original.
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Rob,
Your convertible is looking good. Looks like you may have it ready for next summer. Your convertible and Mark A. hardtop will look good cruising at "Back to the Fifties".
To make sure that my Flame Red convertible had the exact color of red as the original paint, this is what I did. I took the door to an auto paint store where they computer scanned a section from the inside where the paint had not faded. They mixed up a quart for me which I painted a scrap piece of metal, I then compared to the original paint. I sent the formula to my body and paint guy. I went with a PPG base coat formula then clear coat. My paint guy called me to ask if I was REALLY SURE that this is the red that I wanted. Apparently the lights in their paint booth made the paint look like a brownish dull red. It wasn't until they rolled it out into the sunlight that they could see the true dark deep red color. My convertible was assembled in Kansas City. It's quite possible that paint colors may vary slightly between the different assembly plants.
If you'd like, I can send you a paint swatch along with the PPG formula for your consideration. I will be in the Twin Cities over the Christmas holidays. Perhaps Mark A., you and I could get together for some '65 GS car talk over an adult beverage.
John Egel
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The 65 looks Great John! :headbang:
Here's my '66 Special, shot with PPG #71528. Apparently, this color is also correct for a 68 Cougar, Code 'T' Cardinal Red. Paint shop said it was the closest available match to the original Buick color.
Color looks similar to Johns car. But mine is definitely a tad more purple than my unpainted doorjambs.
John, I'd appreciate a copy of the formula as well. No rush. My 66 GS needs fresh paint one of these years...
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Walt,
Do you know what this difference is between the 65 & 66 Flame Red?
The 65 makes the paint look better! :overthetop:
Sorry buddy... I couldn't resist!
I hope no one else is reading this (what's the chances?) but I really like your 66 in Flame Red. :icon_thumright:
Chris
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KA- ZING!!!!
Still it does look good for a ....'66.
Loren
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Rob, I have a section of door jamb from an original flame red 65 that could be scanned.
John, I'd love to have you over if your in town. I'll provide the refreshments.
Mark
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Walt,
Thanks for the compliment. Your '66 Special is sweet. I'm sure that Erin would love to go for a ride in it someday. :love4: The '66's are my second favorite Buick musclecar. How did a Special manage to get into your stable of GSs?
Here's the formula that was used for my convertible. Bear in mind that this formula is what my paint shop came up with to match my original paint. I have compared it with my Dealer Showroom Color and Trim Book and the '65 Buick Color pamphlet. It seems to be a perfect match. This is what was used to make a quart formula. They then filled some aerosol spray cans for me to test for color match.
Quart formula:
DMD 670 - 190.6
DMD 647 - 210.6
DMD 652 - 211.2
DMD 671 - 217.1
DMD 622 - 298.2
DMD 617 - 585.7
DBX - 695 - 1096.6
If you'd like me to send you a painted metal swatch, send me an email with your address. I'd like to also know how this compares to the '66 Buick Flame Red.
Mark and Rob, my wife has just reminded me of a change in plans. We will be in the Twin Cities the weekend after Thanksgiving, not Christmas as I stated earlier. I will bring samples of my favorite Kansas City micro brew, Boulevard Unfiltered Wheat. :occasion14:
John
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Mark,
Thanks for the offer on the door jamb. My hood and trunk are still not primered so I have them. same with the inside of my door. My doors, trunk lid, and hood from my GS convertare going back on to the finished product. I was mainly concerned because GM lists three different mixes for Flame red and I'd hate to be way off. Two bright tones and one a little more muted with almost a touch of brown or maroon. The cars I see on the Internet however which they call flame red seemed bright as heck. We mixed up all three and painted them on my car on the interior of the door. Two were so bright they weren't even close. One (the muted once) seemed pretty close. It's hard to tell after 44 years of aging on the car.
I am going to bring John's mix to the shop to see how it compares (thanks John). I'll let you know what happens. I'd love to join you guys the weekend after thanksgiving but i will be out of state at my in-laws. (I'd rather be hanging around and talking about cars).
Rob
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Walt and Robk,
Painted metal swatches from the previously mentioned formula are in the mail to you both. Let us know how it compares to your original paint.
John
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Body has been blocked over and over again so it's on to the frame. My friend mixed formulas for flame red until a match to the inner door was found. Transmission is done and motor is nearly done. Just saw a NOS headlight bezel on ebay the day after i bought a slightly pitted one for nearly the same price. Frame is blasted.
One question: I have a new in-the-box roof which came with my parts car. It has the plastic rear window which is more like original. I have seen on ebay a convertible top for this car with a glass rear window which I have been thinking about buying. Over the years I have had converts with plastic rear windows and they seem to lose their clarity fast. Any thoughts about going with the glass rear window? My car will have a few other non-correct parts like a 3922 carb, new radiator, brake components, etc.
Thanks Rob K
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I feel like the "flame red" came out pretty close. The body work is pretty much done. Now onto mechanicals. I can't wait to drive this car.... Rob Keena
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Rob, looks great! can not wait to see it in Iowa! and meet up with the gang! Jon :occasion14:
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Rob,
Looking good, great progress, you should have it done in time for the BCA Nationals. I can't wait to see it. And you will love driving it!
Regarding the convertible top and rear window, I'm not sure how a glass window would fold down into the well. Would it have a folding seem in the middle of the glass? I went with the original vinyl. It's been 12 years now and it still looks like new. Of course it rarely sees sunlight and I've only put the top down a couple of times. With proper care, a vinyl rear window on a pampered car should last for years. BTW, how long has the top been folded in a box. I had one in a box for years waiting to be installed. My convertible top installer, said that it would be difficult to get the "box memory" wrinkles out. So he ordered a brand new one just to make sure it was tight and wrinkle free. Just my two cents.
Keep the updates and photos coming.
John Egel
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Rob,
Looking great!!
Mark
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Thanks guys. Progress has been o.k. (and right on budget too :overthetop:). Everything seems to take a little longer than expected but my absolute target is to drive this car to Ames. I am pretty sure that the first version will have some new incorrect parts to be replaced later but I figure if the frame, engine, body, tranny, and interior are done correct up front i can work on the smaller details as parts and cash become available.
John- Your prediction about the roof in the box was dead on. We pulled it out and it was wrinkled so bad it was not worth saving. It also had no rear window. My sense is that the original buyer had been in the middle of a restoration and just gave up. The top never came out of the box. I ordered a new one with the vinyl rear window but I have been waiting for it for three weeks and am told it will be another two weeks before it arrives.
I am Suppose to pick up another load of chrome in the next week or so.
If anybody needs a decent true 65 gs frame, any front fenders, or a variety of other little things they should let me know. I will get serious about selling this stuff later and post it on one of the sites but i would rather it would go to one of you guys. Rob K
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Rob,
I talked to Mr. Bonin last week. Let me know when you head up, I'd like to tag along.
I have some stuff to pick up/drop off.
Mark
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Not much further to go on the body for my body man. This photo is a couple of weeks old and the front seats are in. Once the chrome is done this will be very close. Door panels are waiting for armrest base re-chroming and exterior handles. Lots of little parts needed at this stage. I have found the dipstick, alternator brackets, armrest and a million other things but would be curious to know if anyone knows the part number (or better yet a source) for the fuel line bracket located at the front of the engine intended to keep the fuel line out of the fan. Any help on that topic appreciated.
Engine is in. Rebuild shop took nearly exactly a year. We still have not fired it up but that day is getting closer. I am a little nervous about the radiator I have. It's correct, but pretty beat up. Thinking about a brand new one so that I don't end up on the side of the road on my way to Ames. Any suggestions on that topic appreciated.
Rob
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Rob,
Your convertible is coming together beautifully. Can't wait to see it in Ames.
Those fuel line brackets are not available in the aftermarket as far as I know. Best bet is a salvage yard. Perhaps someone here on this forum has a couple of extras. Otherwise, you can make do with those hardware store rubber insulated clamps.
I'd definitely recommend either a new radiator or re-coring the old one. The cost will be about the same. Year One or Original Parts group might have one for a '65 GS. Just make sure that they have the cross flow radiator and not the down flow style. Also make sure they have the correct style for a Non Air Cond. verses Air Cond. GS. AC cars have a different top inlet tube (90 degree turn). Whereas the top inlet tube on a non AC car comes straight out.
Good luck going down the home stretch.
John Egel
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Looking forward to seeing you in Ames.
Loren
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Someone posted on here last week that he is going to reproduce the brackets holding the grille emblem in the grille--maybe he can be talked into making the two loops for the fuel line that goe on the bottom front of the engine--they should actually be easier to reproduce than the grille emblem brackets.
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My wheels are now "argent" though it is tough to tell in the photos. Car turned over today. Still waiting for some chrome/aluminium parts (taillights, clampdown for roof, ornament, and a few other parts). I'll need those taillights to get to Ames. Car will need a few things in the years to come for total correctness, including drive shaft, Shifter boot, fuel pump, and a few other things. But the car is really close. It has been a year long treasure hunt for me.
As soon as taillights are done I'll get my first test drive. In the past 14 months I have owned a 65 skylark and two Gs's but I have never driven one. By the way: How do these things drive?
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Rob, you might want to pick-up a few extra tires for the rear wheels! :laughing7: You have power steering and power brakes right ? and low effort clutch! A stock gs with out these can be a bear to drive! if you are running a 3.36 or more rear gear you will pull some rpm's at highway speeds with the nailhead! But the take off power is great! and the LOOK! :headbang: Jon
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Rob,
Looking good!!! I can't wait to see it in person and also to meet you in Ames. You are going to have one fun drive from Minneapolis to Ames. Bring plenty of gas money. I hope that the rest of you parts show up in time. If not, let us know and we can come up with a plan "B" for you.
John Egel
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power drum brakes: Check Power steering: Check (original to car). Low effort clutch: Uh oh.
Since my car has no positraction I figured I will go through a number of tires over time. Luckily my spare
Still pushing for my chrome parts. hopefully it wont be an issue.
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Finally have most of my chrome back. Car should be ready for Ames. One question: Does anyone have a source/name/ or color for the gray paint used to paint the inner part of the tail light assembly?
Car is running. I've decided to replace the radiator that i bought on ebay with a new one. The ebay one was not as represented. I figure it's better to have a functioning radiator for the drive to Ames than a correct one that appears to be leaky. The correct one will go back in after re-coring.
Thanks
Rob keena
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Rob,
Glad to hear that you've got your chrome pieces back. For the taillight's inner trim, I used aluminum spray from a rattle can. For the black band near the outside edge, I'd suggest a semi glossy black. The same black should also be used in the center emblem's background. Be very careful when installing the center emblem so as not to break off the top or bottom tabs.
Looking forward to meeting you and seeing your convertible in Ames.
John Egel
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I have been having a good time driving my car lately. Over 1000 miles since it got on the road (including the trip to Ames). I have run into a few small problem but nothing major yet. Leaks are taken care of, sparks plugs switched, adjustments to carb, etc. I am on the road so much I am an ambassador for the 65 gs. I have run into two 65gs owners who I directed here, one with a 4spd convert like mine. He said Loren had worked on his car.
Been working and driving so much for the last three weeks I haven't had time to thank all you guys for all of your contributions to help get me on the road. Mark has helped me with a ton of parts, advice and connections. Thanks Mark. Walt gave me the decode on my plate when I first got the car to help me confirm 4spd was correct. Al set me up with much needed arm rests, John helped me with the color and an extremely helpful list to get the car just right (i am working on it), Loren offered great advice on more than one topic, Chris set me up with my backup lights, Brian with the driveshaft (would have been hard to drive without it), and ............. (Mark, don't read this part),....... Jon found the much needed afb 3922 for me. I am forgetting someone but you guys are the best. Rob K :cheers2:
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Rob,
It was a great pleasure to finally meet you in person and enjoyed your company at Ames.
Look forward to other events with you and the other fine GS owners.
BTW, your car looks terrific, even without the beer bribes. :occasion14:
Loren
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Rob,
It was ideed a pleasure to meet you and Jay in Ames at the BCA Nationals. I'm glad that you also had the chance to meet Loren, Jon, Al Jones, Roger and me. Of course, you already had met Mark. You and your GS 4-speed convertible are and will be great ambassadors for our group of '65 GS fanatics. You are welcome for any help that we/ I have been during your restoration process. I would hope that you will pay it forward to others you meet in the future. We are a small tight group who know and appreciate what we have in friendship as well as our passion for the '65 GS.
See you later,
John Egel
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Rob,
I seen the pictures and I've heard all the stories about your car and all I can say is "WOW!"
These are the types of things that really warm up a Buick guys heart and I'm so glad to have followed along as you and your car went through this journey.
With so much going on in the world today, it's becoming harder and harder to stick with these projects and see these dreams through to completion. Thank you for sharing everything here on our site and I'm sure this has and will continue to inspire many others to tough it out and see their projects to completion also.
Happy and safe motoring my friend! :icon_thumright:
Chris