65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Classifieds => Part & Car Leads => Topic started by: cwmcobra on August 21, 2020, 08:32:15 AM
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Overview: Reproduction battery cables are available for the 65 GS. Skip to the last paragraph if you’d like to see only the bottom line. If interested in “the rest of the story”, continue reading.
For those of you that have been searching for “correct” reproduction battery cables for your 65 GS, you are aware that the search has been lengthy and without much success. I’ve been searching on and off since 2017, just before the Brookfield BCA Nationals, where I shared information on a set of cables I had purchased from CustomBatteryCables.com in Arizona. They were functionally correct, but had differently shaped tin plated copper battery terminals, instead of cast lead, that were soldered to the cables. The attachment of the auxiliary ground lead to the negative cable was not like the originals and they lacked part numbers on the insulation of each cable. I installed them on the Steve Shuman car the day before archival judging, removing the old cables that had aftermarket clamp-on replacement battery terminals installed, threw in the bag and forgot about them.
Since then, I’ve been working on and off with Vince, the owner of CustomBatteryCables.com, to find the correct cast lead terminals, thinking if we could overcome that hurdle, I could have some stamps made to mark part numbers on the cables. But this spring, Vince admitted that he was out of options for the lead terminals. So I thought I’d take one last crack at finding more original reproductions. That research has led me to American Autowire in Bellmawr, New Jersey, “the premier automotive electrical manufacturer for OEM/Restoration, Modified Restoration, and Street Rod/Custom vehicles.” I searched their catalog and found cables for our 65 Gran Sports, so I called and talked to them. The sales rep went through all the questions I had, trying to confirm that these cables were indeed correct in length, markings, etc. In that process, he sent me images that were parts of the original GM drawings for the cables, which gave me confidence. So, I happily ordered a set, only to be called a day later by their engineer explaining that even though the negative cable was in the catalog, they don’t have the die to cast the lead battery terminal around the cable with the auxiliary lead. The cost to create the die is more than they are willing to invest for what would be a small niche market. I was disappointed, but remembered that they offer a cable for a 1963 Wildcat 425 application that is exactly the same as used on our GS’s, but without the auxiliary lead and with a different part number. I proceeded with the order of the positive cable and this almost correct negative cable with two custom modifications. I had the correct part number for the 65 GS negative cable applied to it and, since they couldn’t attach it in their process, also had them include the correct auxiliary lead separately. I knew I would have to find a way to attach the auxiliary lead in a way that looks good and creates a proper electrical connection. After receiving the cables I was very pleased.
The terminals at the opposite end of the cables from the battery are not exactly like the originals, but are much heavier duty than the lugs I’ve seen on aftermarket cables. The finishing of those terminals is correct, with black heat shrink tubing on the positive cable and none on the negative. And the auxiliary ground lead has the correct internally toothed eyelet for attachment to the inner fender.
My plan for attaching the auxiliary lead to the negative cable was to drill into the end of the lead battery terminal and either solder the lead or attach it with electrically conductive adhesive. After researching adhesives, I wasn’t convinced they would result in the desired conductivity and they were quite expensive. The engineer at American Autowire strongly advised me to not try to solder it, as the melting point of lead is very low and the terminal would almost certainly be damaged in the process. In talking with Loren about this, he suggested that I try to crimp the wire into the battery terminal by using a tool designed to crimp copper rings on PEX tubing in plumbing applications. I happen to have one and measured the OD of the battery terminal and the ID of the PEX crimping die and found the die for the ½” PEX would compress the diameter of the terminal by about 0.015 – 0.020”. Long story short, I drilled the end of the terminal with a long bit to avoid damaging the cable insulation, tinned the end of the auxiliary lead with solder, inserted the tinned lead into the hole in the battery terminal (a tight fit), then crimped the terminal with the PEX tool. The result is a secure connection that, although not exactly like the original, looks good and has good continuity as measured with an ohmmeter.
And regarding the part number markings, I first confirmed with Loren the correct part numbers before ordering the cables. After receiving them, I thought they looked really good, but wasn’t sure how original the markings were. In searching for some old lead terminals to use to test my attachment approach with, I ran across the cables I had replaced on the Steve Shuman car while in Brookfield. And looking at them closely, I found that they were original cables that had been modified with the clamp-on replacement terminals, but with part number markings. So I now have a direct comparison of the part number markings of the originals and the reproductions. They truly appear to be exactly the same size, font and applied by the same process that indents the markings in the cable insulation while applying the part numbers.
Bottom Line: I’m certain these are as close as we will find to original cables. The positive cable is absolutely correct, except for the slightly different lug terminal. The negative cable must be special ordered and walked through the fabrication process by the engineer at American Autowire, so I don’t think it would be feasible for multiple individuals to do this custom order process. If there is sufficient interest here, I’d be willing to buy a quantity of the cables from American Autowire, modify them to attach the negative auxiliary lead, and make them available to you. I estimate the cost of the pair to you would be about $150. Please respond here if you are interested in purchasing a pair of cables. If there is enough interest, I’ll confirm costs, order the cables, attach the auxiliary leads to the negative cables, and ship them to you.
Note pictures in the following posts.
A great weekend to all!!
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Pictures of original cables from Brian Stone and John Egel.
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The cables from Custombatterycables.com on the red Steve Shuman car.
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The cable set as received from American Autowire.
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The finished product.
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Part number markings original vs. reproduction.
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Chuck,
Very nice job!
I hope there is enough interest for this to go forward. Maybe missed it, but do you have a minimum number of preorder sets to make this happen?
Loren
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Hi Loren,
There should be no minimum order quantity. Simply put, the more sets I can order, the potentially lower cost we could have. I would expect on a per unit basis, shipping cost will be less and if we have enough interest, I will try to get a price break associated with a greater number of sets ordered.
And stock isn't a problem either. They make them in batches, using the longest length cable in each wire gauge. Then they are cut to length, terminated and marked per each order that's received. If they run out of blanks, they just make another batch.
Chuck
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Chuck - GREAT WORK!
I'm in for 2 sets.
I need a refresher - where does the auxiliary ground mount to the inner fender?
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Dear Chuck, Loren, Dan, and detail oriented mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Thanks so much Chuck for all that painstaking detail work! :icon_thumright: I'm afraid my trusty wagon really wouldn't benefit from such authentic cables, but I do hope the rest of the 1965 GS crowd lines up for them!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Here you go Dan. A picture from the Steve Shuman car and a diagram from the 65 Skylark Assembly Manual.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Chuck
Count me in for a set!
Thanks for making this possible.
Milton
MDKD
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Looks great Chuck! Good detective work.
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What gauge are these, and what is the length of each cable?
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Chuck , these look great . I,m in for two sets .
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i'm in for 2 sets
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I would be in for one set thanks for all the hard work!
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Nice job on these Chuck!
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Hi Chuck, Yes please put me in for 2 sets.. :icon_thumright:
Tony
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I haven’t checked the assembly manual, but did the Skylark (non GS) cable have:
The extra ground wire?
The part numbers stamped into them?
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I haven’t checked the assembly manual, but did the Skylark (non GS) cable have:
The extra ground wire?
The part numbers stamped into them?
The extra ground wire is necessary . That is what completes the circuit for the headlights and parking lamps. I don't recall if they had the numbers stamped into them, but it would seem to make sense that the numbers would be. Also, the Skylark 300 and 225 engines would have spring ring clamps, rather than the bolted style. Buick apparently felt it necessary to use the bolted clamps on the Gran Sports.
Loren
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:rocker:Put me down for two sets also Thanks! For making this happen!
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A group buy for the 65 GS battery cables is now confirmed and is extended to include reproduction cables for the 66 GS and for the 65 Skylark with 300 V8. I've created a new thread for indicating interest in these additional applications: http://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,4790.msg36193/topicseen.html#msg36193 (http://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,4790.msg36193/topicseen.html#msg36193)
Pricing for the group buy will be confirmed soon.
I've found American Autowire to be good to work with and appreciate their willingness to accommodate the potential needs for other applications among our group.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Chuck
Just for a clarification for request of August 21, 2020.
I would like one set of 1965 GS battery cables.
Thanks again
MDKD
Milton
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Hey gang,
Sorry it's been so long in getting this moving. I'm waiting for a quote from American Autowire and then I'll post more details. Stay tuned!
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Sorry for the delay in confirming the battery cable project. I've been away from home for more than a month. But I can now confirm that the cables will be priced to you at $150 per set. In the attachment below is the info I have on those that have indicated interest. Please reconfirm your desired quantities. And if anyone else wants in, I'll keep this open until Monday, November 30.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Chuck
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Chuck
As indicated below I would like to reconfirm my request for one set of these battery cables for my 1965 GS.
Thanks again for your persistence in this venture / adventure.
Let me know if you need anymore of my information.
MDKD
Milton
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Chuck , I am good to go on two sets . Thanks so much for doing this . :cheers2:
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Sorry for the delay in confirming the battery cable project. I've been away from home for more than a month. But I can now confirm that the cables will be priced to you at $150 per set. In the attachment below is the info I have on those that have indicated interest. Please reconfirm your desired quantities. And if anyone else wants in, I'll keep this open until Monday, November 30.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Chuck
Chuck -
Confirmed as shown on the attachment. Thanks for all your efforts!
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Keep me down for two please and thanks for getting this done Chuck!
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Still in for one set. Thanks Chuck!
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Confirmed, two sets the 66 GS has the same cable ends as 65, but different numbers stamped on int.
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Confirming my 1 set of cables for a 65GS as shown on the attachment. Thank-you for pulling all this together, Chuck.
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Hi Chuck, I'm still in for two sets and thanks for making this available for us :icon_thumright:
Tony
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Hi Chuck,
If you have extras, I will take a set.
Kurt Combs
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OK Kurt, I ordered a few extras. I should have more details soon.
Chuck
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Project update...
The order was placed with AAW on January 5. Manufacturing leadtime is 4-6 weeks minimum, could be up to 8 weeks. They're not accustomed to an order of this size.
I'll update when the cables are received and when they are ready for shipment to you.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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8 WEEKS ! Oh i guess . Ill just use jumper cables till them come . :laughing7:
All joking aside , Thanks for doing this Chuck .
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Well, it appears that 4-6 weeks has turned into 4-6 months. I checked status with AAW yesterday and they say another few weeks. I'll keep you posted but wanted you to know this hasn't spilled off my plate.
:cheers2:
Chuck
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If there are indistinguishable from original stock, it will be worth the wait.