65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Drivetrain => Differentials, Axles & Brakes => Topic started by: jmos4 on July 08, 2009, 07:22:42 PM
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Hi,
I am redoing a 1965 GS frame to put under a 65 lark I have and is there a difference in brake hoses (rubber lines)
I understand the front wheel cylinders are 1 1/8 inch bore are the rear ones any different?
also does anyone have part numbers for the rear axle bearings and seals?
thanks
Jim
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Jim,
The hoses are same as Skylark. Rear wheel cylinders are the same as Skylark, fronts were arger as you have noted.
Rear wheel bearings for a GS , are same as a Sport wagon. They are not the same as a Skylark though. The correct # for GS/ Sport wagon is RW507AR. This is for an aftermarket part and includes the retainer.
Buick dealer part listed the bearing and the retainer as separate parts. The same bearing was used in Mopars without the retainer.
I don't remember the specifics for the seal.
Loren
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Jim,
I recently replace the rear axle bearings and seals on my '65 GS. Bearing numbers are as Loren stated. I got my rear axle seals from Carquest, part # 8594S. Although I would think you'd be able to get those from any auto parts store. Good luck.
John
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Jim,
The challenge is finding those front wheel cylinders. The ones I got at the local parts store were a newer style that theorically should have worked, but wouldn't because the bleeder jet was made different and hit the spindle. They also had external dust boots and wouldn't fit right on the backing plate. I ended up ordering mine from NAPA online at the advice of someone on V8Buick.com and they were the correct ones.
I was having so much trouble finding them that I had actually bored the orginals on my lathe, pressed in a steel sleeve, and machined/honed them to the correct size! Once I found the right ones, I put those on the car instead of the ones I sleeved.
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Thanks Brian, that's a good thing to pass on for availability.
Loren
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All thanks for the knowledge,
I ordered a set of wheel cylinders for a 66 GS as NAPA listed that not a 65 go figure hope this is the set Brian is talking about will find out
will order some bearings and seals on Friday
FYI: I have been for the past 2 weeks rebuilding a 65 GS frame (painted today) and engine (just seals) and converting it to a 4 speed to place under my 65 Skylark post car my goal is 3 weeks so time is closing in may take 4 as I only have a few more weeks at home to work on it then back on the road so to speak...
Thanks again wish me luck
Jim
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Jim,
Have tried out that wooden body stand yet?
Also, did you figure out if your Skylark post car has the cross flow core support or not?
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Wooden body stand?
Now I'd be interested in seeing that!
I've actually thought of making something similar (a wood dolly that holds the body shell about four to five feet off the ground) when I take on my four speed project however I keep leaning back towards biting the bullet and buying one of the body carousels.
The last body I took off the frame I used four empty 55 gallon drums on each corner with two heavy pieces of wood in between to hold the body up. Primitive yes.. but it worked well, was inexpensive and I didn't have a lot of stuff to store afterwards. ;D
Chris
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I made mine back in 1995. Just sold it to Jim a few weeks ago since I have no plans to do any more cars:
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That is pretty slick Brian!
I like how you've got the wheels on there and you left plent of unobstructed room underneath to work.
Very cool design... you've got my gears clicking again and giving this new thought.
Thanks for sharing..
Chris
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Hey Brian,
I have yet to utilize the stand as I really am not yet to the detail stage of the underside of the car which the stand should help alot
I got a cross flow core support yet does anyone have or know of where to get a set of lower radiator brackets?
also the Bearing part numbers according to NAPA closest they had listed was for all Skylarks, sportswagons and Gran sport were RW5070CR no listing on the "RW5070AR" and the seals you gave cross referenced to a NAPA 13492 which was listed for all 3 again
the Napa Bearings were listed as a size of 1.378 ID, 2.7475 OD and .700 thick
the ones on my axle measure about 2.995 OD have yet to press off so any other PN to check to??
still going one other question maybe anyone who has done this conversion is on wiring the GS has 2 engine connectors the Skylark has 2 and a separate lug for the ALT do I add a wire between the junction block (where the Alt and positive cables all join on the Drivers fender) can I get away with Plug and play one harness to the other car (one thing to note the GS was a AC car the Lark is not)
been Blasting parts for the past 2 days need to get a cabinet and a bigger compressor, one day for now it is getting down slowly
thanks for the help
Jim
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I got a cross flow core support yet does anyone have or know of where to get a set of lower radiator brackets?
also the Bearing part numbers according to NAPA closest they had listed was for all Skylarks, sportswagons and Gran sport were RW5070CR no listing on the "RW5070AR"
Jim
Jim, The GS does not use brackets for the radiator, only some rubber mounting pads. Steele Rubber reproduces them, but they are stupid-expensive at over $27 a pair...you need a pair for the bottom, and a pair for the top. CARS once posted they sell Steele products at a 15% discount. So drop them a line...
http://www.oldbuickparts.com/
You may not be aware the GS uses a radiator with wider tanks, so the top cover plate is unique to GS and HD cooling-optioned cars. Wagons are another good source for those. Do you have one?
Rear wheel bearings....The GS and Sportwagons (and Olds versions) use a larger bearing, RW507-A. It's not made any more.... A place called Olcar bearings used to have them, maybe they still do. Might try the Buick Farm (Doug) too. Expect to pay $40 each for those or more...
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Thanks for the info
I will check the Buick farm for them also does anyone make replacement axles as I have one with twisted splines use to be a 4 speed drag car so who knows (one of my earlier parts cars)
I am aware on the Cross flow and 4 core radiator the thing I am missing is the steel lower brackets I have a rusty set from a 3 core I may modify to fit but if someone new a source it would be better to replace with new
thanks again all I believe I am done with the sand blasting dam stuff gets everwhere starting to paint my pile
Jim
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One other question what is the right PN for the rear axle seals are they the same as a normal skylark?
as I checked the Number that was given and it crossed to a std skylark seal
thanks again all
Jim
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Rear seal is the same as regular skylark, and so is the axle, so you should be able to pull the axle out of one of your parts cars to use--just need the GS unique bearings.
What was said earlier is correct--the GS radiator is so much larger that the rubber pieces that go under the radiator tanks actually sit right in the core support. If you look, it has indentions in it for the rubber pieces to fit in with a hole at each end of the indention for the little rubber snaps to pop into. The radiator is smaller on a regular skylark, so it has a stamped metal piece that screws into the bottom of the core support to hold the rubber--that is what you are thinking about. They are not used for a GS radiator though.
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Brian,
ah that makes sense I made a set for the 4 door when I added the 4 core (lengthened the orginal ones) thought I had to do the same
still checking on bearings got most of the small stuff painted still waiting on parts to button up the engine
doing brake and fuel lines today yeah getting a little closer
thanks agian
Jim
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Rear seal is the same as regular skylark, and so is the axle, so you should be able to pull the axle out of one of your parts cars to use--just need the GS unique bearings.
I didn't know the 65 GS used the same axles and seals as the Skylarks. Now ! do! ;D
The 66-68 GS and Sportwagons used a larger diameter axle, different bearings and seals than the regular Skylarks. So the 66-68 GS stuff is different than the 65 GS stuff. ::)
There is an alternative to using the GS 507AR bearings..... a guy on Buicks.net made up an adapter bushing to use Skylark bearings on his 67 GS. See what he did here;
http://www.teambuick.com/forums/view.php?pg=posi_10-2
Note that those dimensions are for 1967, not 1965!
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Dan, also a member here, has a pair of bearings listed for $110. One with retainer, one without.
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=177160
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The 68-up (until they started using the 8.5) rear end is completely different--it was Buick specific. The 64-67 rear end was a Pontiac design that Buick bought from Pontiac all those years. They are both considered 8.2, but there are alot of significant internal differences. The biggest differences are the big pinion bearing is alot bigger in the 68-up rear, it has 7/16" ring gear bolts instead of 3/8", and the left and right carrier bearings are different sizes in the 68-up rear end.
If you look at a set of upper control arms from a '64-'67 Skylark, you will notice they have "Pont" stamped in the top of them.
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I will have to look for that stamping. Thanks Brian.
Loren
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Brian,what # kit or wheel cylinders did you finally get from NAPA? I'm starting the rebuild process of the brake system on my 4-spd car and the kits i got are wrong.NAPA sold me kits # 422 and 423 and they are to small for the fronts for sure.1-1/16 rubbers and we need 1-1/8.Haven't taken the rears apart yet. Thanks,Tom
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Tom
Wed. I'll be starting on my brakes. Have all new parts: NAPA's #are: wheel cyl. FRONT #37019 & #37020, REAR #37021. hoses are FRONT #36555 & REAR #36005. SPRING KITS ARE, FRONT #2213 & rear #2214.
The trunk lock will be going out in the A.M.
Al
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Al,first off thank you for the information.Second,have you verified that these are the correct sizes for our GS cars and not what NAPA has listed for a Skylark?Reason I'm asking is i just ran into this problem with rebuild kits i got from NAPA. Front kits are not big enough as i described in this thread earlier. Tom
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have you verified that these are the correct sizes for our GS cars and not what NAPA has listed for a Skylark? Tom
Tom, for some reason, Napaonline has the wrong wheel cylinders listed for both 1965 and 1966 GS's.
If you use a 1967 GS for the search, you will find the correct wheel cylinders....same as AL listed. Specs are given as 1-1/8". Note that the rear hose for a 67 is different than the 65-66. Other parts are the same. Al lists the correct numbers.
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Napa online was right when I bought mine back in 2005, but I guess they have changed something since then.
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If anyone is interested the rebuild kit for the front wheel cylinders are NAPA # 426 or so the parts guy tells me.I gave him the above wheel cylinder # and he cross referenced it. I'll find out tomorrow when i pick them up.Still going to buy the above parts and keep my rebuilt ones on the shelf so my kids can throw them away when I'm gone. Tom
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Sorry it took so long to get back to this.If anyone is interested the front kits,#426 are correct.
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Getting the brakes done slowly but surely.
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Should have been from this to that.
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looking good tom, are you using POR-15 on the backing plates?
Al
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Al,The POR15 was just a little to glossy for my liking so i used Professional Rust-Oleum with a good NAPA primer and I'm very happy with the results. The Professional line is nothing like the regular watered down crap. Tom P.S. This is semi gloss.
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If you look at a set of upper control arms from a '64-'67 Skylark, you will notice they have "Pont" stamped in the top of them.
I saw a pair of those with the 'PONT' stamping at a swap meet....they were next to a pair that did NOT have the stamping. My (late) 65 GS and 66's do not have the 'PONT' stamping... maybe it was a 64-early 65 thing?
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Walt,I have three sets of these laying around.I'm going to check them and I'll get back to you with what what I find on mine. Interesting,very interesting. Tom
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The '65 GS supposedly had "harder" rubber bushings in the suspension, so maybe the upper control arms came from a different location for the GS because of the bushings in them. All of the regular 64-66 Skylarks I have taken apart had Pont on them. Thinking back, I can't remember if the ones in my GS did or not.
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Tom
Wed. I'll be starting on my brakes. Have all new parts: NAPA's #are: wheel cyl. FRONT #37019 & #37020, REAR #37021. hoses are FRONT #36555 & REAR #36005. SPRING KITS ARE, FRONT #2213 & rear #2214.
The trunk lock will be going out in the A.M.
Al
Thanks for posting this! Is there any special deal with the Master Cylinder? Can you share the part # for the master cyl?
Thanks,
Ted