65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: jmos4 on April 12, 2012, 05:45:00 PM
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Hi All,
Some of you may be aware that Dan Ankeney found a rare, 1 of 604 factory 3 speed car sitting on the edge of a farm field just north of Green Bay WI last spring.
Well after much negotiation, he finally persuaded him to sell it ,and with the luck of Brian Stone introducing me to Dan, I was able to purchase the carcus
Easter weekend myself and a good friend took a ride out to Dan's, we left Thursday night at 11:30pm and got to Dan's about 7:30am WI time, on his side of lake Michigan
The car is very rough, as you all can see in the pictures, no floor pans and maybe 1 1/2 frame rails, it has very little options other than the 2 tone paint (black top/red lower) a tinted windshield and backup lights. This is as base of a model car I have seen
The suprising thing is that about 8 years ago the former owner followed it to the scrap yard and persuaded the person to sell it to him for scrap price guessing a few hundred bucks if that (yes he made a profit)
What's left of the 106,000 mile car is the original LT code 401 minus the air cleaner and exhaust manifolds, that amazingly started up and idled. It has a knock but a good core, a factory HD toploader 3 speed (yes, made by Ford) along with the original shifter and a home made shift knob (will have to upload that picture later) drive shaft and rear end which with any luck a posi and 3:36 gears. I will know once I get it out and remove the cover this weekend, although it does not have a limited slip tag or even boxed lower control arms, so a posi may be a long shot
Well the most of parts are destine to end up in a base model, 2 door post car which I may even retaining the manual steering box this all depends on how the project progresses
I have to say again, thanks to Dan & Brian, if any of you are in WI or in NC you have to say hey, as they are some of the nicest people I have had the pleasure to deal with, as many of you already know from this site and Buick events.
Will post a few more pictures as I get them off the camera, wish I could figure out how to post a video of the engine running and eventually will start a post in the restoration section when this project gets started (current one still on going)
Regards,
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Nice find!
Please make sure you get an entry into the registry as this will be one of the first three speed cars that we'll have documented.
As for posting a video, you can attach small videos that are in the mpg avi or wmv formats just like you would attach a picture. The other way (for larger videos) is to set up a YouTube account, upload there and paste the link into a posting and it'll automatically display the video.
I always love reading stories about another GS getting saved from the scrapyard but what even makes is better is when it's a group of guys from here that work together to "get er done". :glasses9:
Chris
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Jim,
Got to give a shout out to Ryan the tow truck driver. Great guy, knowledgeable and easy to work with. The rear axle was not connected to anything on the drivers side due to the frame rail being gone. Ryan hooked up a separate tow line to the axle and pulled it so that it would keep up with the car.
In the picture with all the colored straps they are literally holding the cross member to the steering column because there is nothing left of the frame on the drivers side.
It was great working with you guys. Glad you made it home safely. And unbelievable that the engine still ran - with the original 3922S.
Dan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41XBEkmr9AE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41XBEkmr9AE#)
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That is just amazing..... amazing you got it on the flatbed without pulling the car to pieces, amazing it runs after the exhaust manifolds were off it.....I would've thought mice, wasps or other critters would've crawler into the ports and cylinders, not to mention moisture! Guess the lifters bled down so much the valves closed.
Congrats on saving those few remaining pieces from being scrapped! :thumbsup:
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Dan,
thanks for posting the video, I have a set of manifolds so I threw the pass side on and placed a board on the drivers so not to cook the wiring harness
Yeah I was impressed if ran and started up fairly well all things considered never got it above idle and did not want to damage it further
I too thought it was going to come out like the Titanic as I had my sawsall packed up just in case, but the wrecker driver Ryan was excellent and would recommend him to anyone as he could have quite easily yanked it and then said your problem or charged me up the wasu, he was real reasonable and worked well with all of us on the best way to get it up and onto my trailer.
Another funny thing is the drivers rear tire we never had to add air it had been holding air for 8+ years, must have been the snow chains holding it together
Will be posting some more pic's over the weekend
Regards,
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Jim,
Congratulations on your "new" GS 3-speed. Thanks to you, another rare '65 GS rises from the grave. Post some more photos.
Yes, both Dan and Brain are stellar guys. We are fortunate to have them on board and as friends.
John
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Jim,
Have to thank Chris for posting the video. I'm not that tech savvy.
Dan
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Jim,
Have to thank Chris for posting the video. I'm not that tech savvy.
Dan
Someone needs to play the role of computer geek in the clubhouse. :tongue3:
No problem and it only took a couple minutes to post to YouTube and link up to the site.
That ole engine is just begging to be saved and there seems to be a lot of fight left in her.
Chris
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Hi all,
Chris, thanks a lot for posting, I am not that tech savoy or that much patience for getting things in the computer, luckily I can get the pictures re-sized
Here is some more pictures you have to love the shift knob suprising its almost comfortable, though will be searching for a replacement at the next Buick show which may be for me at least, down when I visit Brian at the end of June and hopefully seeing a lot of you there as well.
Also you have to love the drivers rear tire 8+ years and still holding air and when was the last time Snow chains were legal on the roads?
Either way thanks for all intrest and hope to be posting soon on the next project.
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That is going to be an advanced project. I might have parted that - best of luck bring back a cool three speed!
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Hi all,
Dr Frankenbuick and others,
This car is going to be a donor for another project, as it is too far gone, as I have been removing things from it I believe the only thing holding the body on what's left of the frame is the core support as there is really no much left, hoping to have it consolidated by this weekend in parts to keep and scrap run though they may not give me much for it
Chris,
I did add this to your Registry so you have a 3 speed on your list now can't believe I will be your first too bad its such a basket case
Regards,
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Thanks for adding it to the registry Jim.
Although the entirety of the car won't be saved, the engine will live on and we've documented her existence before she's parted out.
The problem with the three speed cars are even though they are rare, they were viewed as being almost impractical by those wanting a stick for racing since the four speed was a better option and even more impractical for those wanting a automatic (most Buick buyers).
Rumor has it that the majority of three speed cars might have been ordered that way when someone forgot to check the transmission option box which gave them the default trans or the wrong box was checked during ordering. It's probably safe to say that some cars were also early factory demo's or company cars that eventually made their way into public hands.
Just another interesting piece of history that surrounds these cars and makes them so special.
Chris
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Chris,
That's a interesting fact about the 3 speed cars, I really never gave it much thought, just figure a few buyers were like me on my first new car purchase, buy only what I could afford and this car would definitely qualify for that, maybe they only had a few hundred over a Skylark to work with a as this has very little in the way of options that i can tell
You will be glad to know I am planning on running the 3 speed in its future home, as my current 65 post car and my 65 4 door both have a wide ratio 4 speeds in both, but on the street I usually find myself skipping 2nd or 3rd depending on the situation and the gearing of the 3 speed is very close to 1st and 3rd in a wide ratio so really won't miss much
well thanks all again for the interest and all involved in the 3 speed adventure,
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I've heard that the 3-speed cars were faster by a shift then the 4-speeds. That could be with ratios similar to the St-400. You will have to let us know.
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Jim I tracked down two three speeds out of gto's one is locked up and the other one has all new gears and shiney as new waiting for my 4speed car! they are the same toploader unit, I think we are gonna like the wide ratio with the bottom end Buick torque NICE FIND way to go Dan!! -Glenn
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Hi all,
Yeah from other I have heard a wide ratio is easier on the street to drive, less shifting
Factory close ratio t-10:
2.20 1st
1.64 2nd
1.31 3rd
1.00 4th
I am running a AutoGear M22W in my post car with the following ratio's:
2.559 1st
1.752 2nd
1.366 third
1.00 4th
My 4 door has a wide ratio T-10:
2.54 1st
1.89 2nd
1.51 3rd
1.00 4th
Factory 3 speed I believe is the following:
2.49 1st
1.59 2nd
1.00 3rd
TH400 ratios
First Gear - 2.48:1
Second Gear - 1.48:1
Third Gear - 1.00:1
So think they are very close, I have also heard the 3 speeds were a little quicker because of the steeper 1st gear when compared to the closed ratio t-10 hoping in a few years to get this drivetrain into my next project.
Oh the car was a base model not even a posi, but did have the factory 3:36 in the rear
Thanks again,
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Jim the gentleman that built mine told me that if you put the main shaft out of the tranny destin for a ford 3 speed cause the one we have is longer,He said easy to come by and a muncie bearing on the back exit for the main shaft you can then use the gear vendor unit for the ford 4speed toploader just have to figure out the shifter option then. Thinking I might go that route.-Glenn http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=gearvendor%20ford%20toploader&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gearvendors.com%2Fhrford4sm.html&ei=dnaPT7TRIOWw2wWT-IGbBQ&usg=AFQjCNH13AAuAQHPBokPx6Q-hHnLYsvHyA (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=gearvendor%20ford%20toploader&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gearvendors.com%2Fhrford4sm.html&ei=dnaPT7TRIOWw2wWT-IGbBQ&usg=AFQjCNH13AAuAQHPBokPx6Q-hHnLYsvHyA)
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Hi,
Didn't Ford offer the 3 speed with a OD in vans or something like that, wonder if that could be adapted to this trans, either way will be a neat to have a OD, although betting a old ford tranny is a cheaper alternative than the gear vendor unit
When I got my AutoGear I was hoping they had developed their 5 speed they use to advertise, but can't complain with the one I got
Regards,
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Jim the input shaft in our tranny's is made for gm app. and the gear on the ford overdrive has a different number of teeth on it so will not match up with the overdrive countershaft and those transmission's transfer power to rear threw the gear that was supposed to be forth in the strong toploader making the counter shaft take all the load when in overdrive making lots of heat. Only held up with the smallblock and the six's in light duty gear vendors is expensive but they are strong and simple and when your tranny is in high gear it is running straight threw relying on the mainshaft only! less heat and let the gv unit take the overdrive load.-Glenn