65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Projects & Restorations => Projects & Restorations => Topic started by: nut465gs on January 17, 2009, 12:48:36 PM
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Hi guys,
Just thought I'd show some photos of the paint codes that I found on the rear axle of the '65 GS that I'm restoring. This is an all original Fremont, CA built GS, rust free, automatic transmission, 85,000 mile convertible. I know the complete history of this GS and have the original window sticker and protecto-plate info. I'm in the middle of doing a total body-off-the-frame restoration. The axle had the usual dirt and grease, but after scrubbing it down with soap and water, I was amazed to see all the paint codes still visible. It has the standard green paint bands around the axle tubes, indicating a 3.08 ratio as expected. The other two '65 GSs that I own also had the green bands. But this convertible also had an orange paint dab on the right axle tube only. From the literature that I've seen, this should indicate a posi. Knowing that it wasn't a posi, I still hoped that I could be mistaken. After removing the cover to verify, it's not a posi. Why the orange paint? Go figure. I also found on the bottom side of the differential an "LG" stamped in yellow paint. From my literature this indicates a 3.08 GS only. The GS ring and pinion gears are "lubrited" (see the GS supplement, section 6-1); I assume this means extra hardened steel. Also on the rear differential are two white painted bars. I have no clue what that could indicate. Any ideas? The rear axles also had a yellow paint dab on the very ends of the hubs. On the inside of the axle hub area, I found on both axles a pink paint ring. See photos.
I've just finished putting the powder coated frame back together. Replaced all the bearings, seals and gaskets. Complete new brake parts, except drums. New stainless steel brake and fuel lines. Next step is to put the body back on the frame.
Attached are photos of the rear axle, before and after.
John Egel (aka Nut465GS)
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John,
GOOD to see you on board. I like the work you're doing. Would be nice to get over your way and see the progress. Especially before the body goes back on . Or have you allready got to that point?
Take care , see ya,
Loren
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Loren,
Thanks for the welcome. I'm long overdue in getting involved on the this website. Before the body goes back on the frame, I need to decide how to detail the underside of the body. First, I need to clean the dust and dirt from the body and paint shop. That means laying on my back with a bucket of soap and water using a sponge and scrub brush. It's a little too cold in the garage for that right now. Initially I was going to paint it flat black, but I've changed my mind. I am thinking that I should preserve the original factory color and finish. It' virtually rust free. Or maybe I should protect it with a satin clear finish. What would you do? Here's a couple of photos as it looks today. The first photo is after I wiped it down with a wet sponge under the trunk area.
Are you going to post anything about your current project?
John
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John,
Good to see you here! Those axle codes are interesting. Mine are similar - but different.
Mark
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Mark,
Since your GS is a 4-speed, with what I assume is a 3.36 ratio, there should be some different markings. But as I recall, you also had the green paint bands around the axle tubes. Obviously, that does not indicate the gear ratio after all. Did you find any other paint codes?
John
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Hi John, Glad you could join us!
I'm really a 66 GS guy (since 1977, I was 15), but finally picked up a 65 project a few years ago.
I'm working on a 66 GS Fremont car. The rear had the 2 green bands, but that's all I could find. I did not see a trace of paint on the rear other that those stripes.
I suspect the rear was unpainted when new, so tried to duplicate that look on the resto.
BTW, it was 3.36 ratio, open....standard on the 4 speed. So I don't believe the stripes signified ratio.
My 65 GS rear was in poor shape. Our eastern climate will do that. I did see traces of green stripes, and some orange (?)paint on the drain plug.
I believe some paint marks indicate that fluids were filled, or components received final torquing.
I've seen many green paint dabs on front-end components.
Do you believe the rear in your 65 was originally painted black?
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John,
Yep, 3:36. In addition to the green bands, I found orange, blue an white paint marks, but nothing like what you have. I'll crawl under and take some pics. I'm working on putting in the gas tank now. Also, take a look at my resto thread, there are some shots of the rear there where you can make some of the original markings.
Walt, there were traces of black paint on the axle tubes, but none I could find on the center section. It seems to be standard practice now in restoring these that the tubes are black and the center is painted with cast iron gray.
Mark
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Mark,
It's not to late for me to repaint my center section cast gray. Your rear axle sure does look nice that way. I like the attention to detail in the green paint runs. Cool! I knowingly deviated from factory stock on some items. I had the brake backing plates powder coated black and I also painted the brake drums black. I'm really having second thoughts about the drums. But it's not to late to change that. Since the backing plates are powder coated, I'm stuck with that. I did go with stainless steel lines. Now you got me thinking I should also change back to standard steel lines.
John
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On one of our many car outings , we had the opportunity to tour the assembly plant in Flint. The paint markings were explained as a quality control thing . It means that certain things are done in the assembly process. Kinda like they are checked off.
John, my car was apparently undercoated when new. I chose to remove the undercoating using a heat gun and a putty knife , mineral spirits , lots of rags , two or three tee shirts, a pair of jeans , a few beers, a few shots of scotch, plenty of sweat, some skinned knuckles, a few more shots of scotch and a lot of time on my back.
What I found was a satin black finish with some light white overspray. When done I elected to omit the overspray and returned to the satin black.
As far as the rear end finish goes, most every differential I've seen has shown signs of the axle tubes having been finished black,the cast iron center left raw, the covers have shown signs of being black and the backing plates unfinished.
As far as the paint markings go , they have been pretty much as Mark described. At least what has been left on the rear ends I've seen. I think we need to keep in mind that these markings were put on as the car is going down an assembly line by a person. Are they going to be be identical/ perfect?
Just my observations,gentlemen.
Loren
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I chose to remove the undercoating using a heat gun and a putty knife , mineral spirits , lots of rags , two or three tee shirts, a pair of jeans , a few beers, a few shots of scotch, plenty of sweat, some skinned knuckles, a few more shots of scotch and a lot of time on my back.
Now that's how to get things done!
Buick passion fueled by beer and scotch! You Gotta Like That! 8)
Chris
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Loren, on the cars you've seen with traces of black paint on the axle tubes, was the black paint under the green stripes, or over those stripes?
I've heard reports that cars often got a quick spray of black paint on the front and rear suspension on the assembly line.
My 65 was built in Baltimore....it also has undercoating. For the resto, I'm going to try and save the uc, and just refinish the painted metal.
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John,
Don't look now... but it appears that a bunch of guys on the board like your "rear end"! ::)
I know that it took a lot of cleaning to get it that nice and at that age I can say that it turned out pretty nice. ::)
Wait till you get it to the Nats and everyone checks it out!
Chris
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Walt, as I remember it was under the paint markings and also under the brake lines.
;D Here's to nice rear ends!
Hope the moderators are kool
Loren
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Hey Loren I started it... so I get kicked off here first. ;D
Don't worry, I know the guy that owns the joint (I hear he's a Buick guy). 8)
It's a club.. and the members make the rules and set the mood around here.
As long as no one is offended, feels attacked and we travel Fast with Class, I think things will be very easy going around here. ;)
Chris
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This is sounding good Chris. I am enjoying the board more and more as it is developing.
Again it's looking good.
Loren
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Mark, Walt, Loren and Chris,
I found some literature about the paint codes on the rear axles. Thought I?d share this information here. (Just click on the attachment to view the PDF file which contains two pages.)
The first page is for 1965 Buicks. The second page is for 1965 Oldsmobiles. In the first chart you will see an ? LG ? code for 3.08 44 GS AUTO. This is what I found stamped on the underside of my Diff. Carrier. On the Buick page, it states that it was supposed to be stamped in yellow on the left brake drum. In contrast, on the Oldsmobile page, the MFG. AXLE CODE was to be stamped on the carrier, as it was on my GS. The letters were 1 ? inches high, stamped with yellow paint.
In the smaller chart on the Buick page, it has the COLOR CODES for the various ratios and whether posi or not. A 3.08 non posi should have white markings. I wonder if that is the purpose of the two short white bars on my carrier? If it were a posi, would it have one white and one orange? Mark, did you see any white paint markings? I just see the one orange paint mark on your carrier. Maybe indicating posi fluid added and quality checked? BTW, you did a fantastic job on recreating those paint markings.
What Walt said about the other orange marking that he found makes a lot of sense. Especially since they were also found on the fill plug. This could indicate that gear fluid was added. I also found similar marking on the drive shaft and u-joints. They did need to be greased. Like Loren said, these were quality control markings for inspections and completion of tasks, like adding proper fluids and grease. You still see these same markings and procedures on today?s assembly lines.
I have found no reference to the two green bands so far. Or the pink rings on the inside axle shafts. Or the yellow paint dab on the end of the axle hubs. You?d almost think that heavy duty GS axles would need some markings to differentiate themselves from the standard Skylark and Special axles. Loren, have you checked closely on your California Skylark axles yet? It would be great if you found any markings for comparison.
Just a lot of speculation on my part here. Thanks for letting me spew. Some people have called me anal. I think that I just have a touch of ?65 GS obsession. There is no cure.
John
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John,
As of yet , I have not been under the car. When I've had time to maybe do something, it's been pretty cold.
Loren
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John,
I'll get under some time this weekend to take a few snaps of the rear axle markings.
I started my new job this week, so I'm trying to "adapt" so to speak.
Mark
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Great pic John, thanks for sharing.
I'll have to post some pics of 4 speed tranny codes. It looks like they used a stencil then spray painted the letters....you can even see some overspray.
Mark, glad to hear you found something. Hope it works well for you.
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Mark,
I am also glad to hear that you are employed again.
Loren
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Walt/Loren,
Thanks for the kind words. It actually feels good to be part of the rat race again.
Mark
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Walt/Loren,
Thanks for the kind words. It actually feels good to be part of the rat race again.
Mark
Mark, I know the feeling. I started a new thread here:
http://65gs.com/board/index.php/topic,119.0.html
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Great pic John, thanks for sharing.
I'll have to post some pics of 4 speed tranny codes. It looks like they used a stencil then spray painted the letters....you can even see some overspray.
Thanks Walt,
I hope that you were able to read the two PDF pages that I attached to my last post. It indicated that the paint codes are stamped in yellow. I did not notice any overspray, so in this case I think it was indeed stamped. This is what I did to reproduce the " LG": Using tracing paper, I copied it and made a foam rubber stamp pad. Painted the letters on the rubber pad with yellow paint and then stamped it in the same position. The " L " was a little crooked from the " G " so I did likewise.
Later, I will post the factory markings that I found on the driveshaft in another thread.
John
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Loren, I didn't see the attachments? I've been trying to copy all my pics to the gallery, so they don't get lost in my photobucket account. Hopefully, you guys will save some copies for posterity!
My '66 assembly manual states that the lower A-arms were stamped with ID letters as well...did you see any?
My 65 GS is pretty rusty on the underside. (originally from Bethlehem, Pa)
I have 2 66 GS's from Calif....one is pretty crappy, the other is pretty good...I'm working on it now, just haven't gotten to the rear yet.
Years ago, I had a co-worker that called me anal...I had to look it up! Now I consider that a complement!....tho I feel 'perfectionist' is a better term! ;D