65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Drivetrain => Transmissions => Topic started by: 35chevcoupe on July 05, 2015, 02:04:04 PM
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Hey any of you guys out there with 3 speed manual trans cars , I,m trying to find some specifics on the dearborn transmissions the put in these cars .
(1) I seen on another post here , something about the front bearing retainer being a different size on the buick version to the pontiac version . Is that because of the nailhead bell housing ? or are they the same .
(2) I am having a very difficult time finding any information on casting numbers for the GM tailshaft housing , and the same goes for the metal tag riveted to the case .
Maybe someone out there could post me a picture of theres so I have something to go by :dontknow:
This is one of the different tail housings I have seen
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John, the tag should have heg stamped on it!
With a date code the trans we put in had k5 stenciled
On the right side of the case also.I didn't get any pictures
After it was cleaned and installed. Do a search for heg trans
Online the Ford and Pontiac sites have some info on them,
As I also had the same problem.I got the rebuild kit from
Kajun enterprise out of Texas for it!
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Yes , it does have HEG on the tag , its pretty faint . It also has an A after the HEG , but thats all I can read on the tag .
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John, I believe all of mine had FoMoCo on them too. I ruined at least 3 of these back in the day.
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John, I believe all of mine had FoMoCo on them too. I ruined at least 3 of these back in the day.
Jim , that doesn,t sound very encouraging .
Supposedly from what i,m reading the ford top loader is one of the toughest trans ever built . ( stock that is )
I,d like to get together after i get back from Iola this coming weekend .
Is there anything your looking for while i,m out there ?
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I,m making a little bit of progress on decoding these 3 speeds .
Found out the third letter ( F ) on the tailshaft housing means Foreign or Trans AM racing .
Called a few guys that rebuild top loaders and still haven't found anyone familiar with them yet . :dontknow:
OH WELL , I,m gonna keep looking :read2:
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Did you call and talk to Cajon John down in Texas?
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Brian , I have not talked to Cajon John , don,t know who he is . Do you have his number or does he have a web site ?
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Here it is:
http://www.kajunjon.com/ (http://www.kajunjon.com/)
His specialty is Ford toploaders. He has been in it long enough that he should know something about the Ford 3-speed used in the GM cars.
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Thanks Brian , I will give him a call today .
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Here it is:
[url]http://www.kajunjon.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.kajunjon.com/[/url])
His specialty is Ford toploaders. He has been in it long enough that he should know something about the Ford 3-speed used in the GM cars.
Well I called kajunjon today and got pretty much the same response as the other guys , he knew fomoco ( dearborn ) made 3 speeds for GM but didn't really have any information on them .
OH well , Ill find something someday . I,m not gonna give up . :read2:
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You didn't just trip over one at Iola? I walked by that 65 grill twice and never saw it until you pointed it out. I did find some 66 chrome arm rest bases that were not cracked. It was a pleasure to meet you and hopefully you can find the stuff to put that green.one together. Dan
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Thanks Dan , It was fun meeting you and your wife to. Next time I buy lunch . :cheers2:
I didn't find anything there for my 65 , I looked that grill over twice but decided to pass on it .
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Try Dennis Maroudas:
625 Forest Hills Road
Forest Hills, KY 41527 - View Map
Phone: (606) 237-6648
I had a Dearborn 3-speed rebuilt for my 69 GS350 3-sp. From memory the input shaft was a different length than the Ford version.
Knowing Nailhead stuff it is likely the front bearing cover is unique as well for 65's :occasion14:
The guy that worked on it is MIA now. Dennis has helped me on my T-10 - had unique GS parts in stock and built one for me.
Check with Dennis!
Ted
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Thanks Ted ,
Will give him a try . At the rate I,ll know quite a bit about these 3 speeds , LOL .
So far the differences I have found are , The input shaft , front bearing retainer , tailshaft and output shaft .
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If it is what I suspect, the outside diameter of the input bearing retainer is smaller on the trans that goes behind the nailhead. If so, I can easily turn that down for you on the lathe. Done that several times for T10 input bearing retainers since they have the same difference.
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Brian , sorry about replying back so late didn't notice your last comment .
Anyway thats what makes me think this one may have came out of a buick , because it does fit the nailhead bell housing
( the front bearing retainer that is ) and I,m not positive but I think the 3 speed in the olds and pont. had a larger bearing retainer .
At any rate I,m going to order a rebuild kit for this trans and put it in .
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It is actually the long part of the bearing retainer where the clutch release bearing rides that is smaller on the nailhead transmissions. The part that pilots into the hole is the bellhousing is the same as other GM transmissions.
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.....Found out the third letter ( F ) on the tailshaft housing means Foreign or Trans AM racing.....
I did a little searching and found a few sources that listed the 'F' as also being for 'outside sales'. That makes a little more sense in this case.
More random comments;
The pn showed up in searches indicating the tailshaft was also used in Buick, Pontiac and Olds HD applications. The trans is referred to as the 'Ford 3.03' or 'Dearborn 3.03'.
Is there a partial VIN stamped on it? It would be on a pad next to the top cover. The first two digits should indicated what year and make it was installed in.
KajonJon had a GS 4 speed trans avail on eBay a few months ago.
Another toploader guy is David Kee:
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/ (http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/)
When I installed a Richmond 5 speed in my '66, The front bearing retainer had to be turned down on both the flange and the shaft to work with the Nailhead.
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Brian ,
that,s right ! :BangHead: I forgot about that .
I seen a topic relating to that on this forum too . I guess I,m going to have to do some more checking . Guess I better start looking for that throw out bearing .
especially being that its unique to this bell housing .
Thanks for reminding me about that .
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Walt , I did call both of those guys and they knew that GM used the ( dearborn ) in HD applications with 3 speeds , but they weren't sure on deciphering the numbers as to what the exact application was .
I did see that info on the stamped numbers up by the tin cover but thought that was only pertaining to the 4 speeds .
I did look on top by the tin cover for some numbers but did not see anything . UNLESS it is under the cover gasket . I think I will check that out today .
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John, I saw the vin stamping info in a Pontiac service manual online. But looking at the pics in my '66 Buick manual, I don't see the pad. It could be stamped anywhere!
The '66 Buick manual does have a pic of the ID tag, It's HEG AD, with 10269 on the second line.
The throwout bearing assembly was used on MANY years of Buicks:
Group 0.799 pn 1367058
Used on 1939-48, 53-60, 63-66 Nailheads
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Walt , thanks for the info on the bearing .
Here I thought I was gonna be looking forever .
I,m gonna probably just use this trans as it so far appears to be very close to being the correct one .
Theres only a couple things yet i would like to find out .
1 is did pont. and olds speedo gears come out on the right or left side and 2nd there is some faint painted stencil lettering on the left side of the case , kind of like what I've seen on the GS 4 speeds only they were on the right side .
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John, I'm not seeing any pics in my '66 lit of the tailshaft, so don't know what side the speedo cable is on.
The pn for the 'extension housing' is 9777227. Also listed for Olds F85 1965-69.
The stenciled letters on the side should help ID it if you can make them out. Speedo gear charts would list the code.
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Cable is on the right side and is very long goes around bell housing.
Most of the 3 speeds do not have the vin on them!
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gssizzler . maybe the trans I have is not the right one then because the speedo gear on this trans that I have comes out on the right ,
( passenger ) side .
Walt it,s hard to make out the letters but this is the best photo I can get . I,m trying not to disturb the letters anymore because i would like to paint them back on there .
got a little better photo
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John, all of mine had the FoMoCo on them like in the picture.
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Thanks Jim , Yeah I,m going to order parts for it next week .
It does need a few things inside of it . The reverse idler and reverse gear are kind of chewed up .
So I,m gonna give it a complete rebuild .
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Looking at the speedo gear chart in the '65 Buick service bulletins.......
The 3 speed synchromesh model code shown is 'KF' for all 4400 Gran Sport applications. KF for '66 too.
For the 4 speed, KS, KT, KR, and KP are used depending on which rear end ratio is used.
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Walt ,
Thanks for the info . I,m gonna rebuild this trans and use it for now . I,m kinda thinking at this point it is out of a later GM A body, but am thinking it should help me get it on the road anyway .
Thanks everyone for your input and knowledge on this .
I really do appreciate it.