65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Electrical => Electrical => Topic started by: dl7265 on July 29, 2012, 10:38:55 PM
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M&H electrical has battery cables for v6 & v8 NON GS for 1965. What is everyone using ? Perhaps they would be willing to make some sets if enough interest. Does anyone have their original cables still ?
Thanks,
DL
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Don,
Using the 66 M & H Gran Sport battery cables on mine. They are a little longer but nice.
Dan
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I have a set of orginals on my car that are in excellent condition.
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Don,
Original 65 has bolt-on cable ends - not spring ring.
Is that what M&H lists?
Mark
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66's are spring ring
Dan
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I have a set of orginals on my car that are in excellent condition.
Brian,
Do you know the lengths ? or when convenient could you measure them ? Which style terminals are they ?
Thanks,
DL
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Don,
Original 65 has bolt-on cable ends - not spring ring.
Is that what M&H lists?
Mark
They show 64-67 as spring ring. However, they do not have 65 GS. Only Skylark and special. Supposedly they have all the original drawings?
DL
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DL,
These are original 65 cables. The 65 GS all had bolt on terminals.
Mark
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Thank you Mark,
I just spoke to Ken at M&H. He looked at the drawings, which weren't the best he said. They can only do spring ring ends and he could not tell exactly what the size of the bolt end was, or where it mounts. crap
DL
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Have not seen a measurement to know what the correct length is but Old Cars carries this BC31-3
http://www.oldbuickparts.com/catalog/1961-up-skylark-gs-group-electrical-battery-cable-1963-66-buick-positive-p-2509.html (http://www.oldbuickparts.com/catalog/1961-up-skylark-gs-group-electrical-battery-cable-1963-66-buick-positive-p-2509.html)
Dan
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At some point in the past, the previous owner of my car converted to a side post battery, not quite sure why, but it is what it is. I was planning to convert over to a top mount battery when it came time to replace (probably coming close), but I gather from this post that it might not be as simple as I thought. I was thinking I could just buy a generic set of battery cables, or even have a set made up from standard parts on the end, but sounds like this isn't true?
Keith
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I thought that I'd add my two cents worth to add to the confusion. In 1997 I bought a set of battery cables for my convertible. I bought them from a guy that had 100 sets specially made using the same manufacturer and the same "blueprints" that built them for Buick in 1965. I paid $100 for them but was very pleased with the quality, etc. They even had the part # printed on them, # 2989274 for the positive battery cable. Yes, they had the clamp type ends on them rather than the spring ring style. Yes, he sold them all.
In my 1965 Buick Parts Numbers Book, it has the following written; 4000 Gran Sport H.D. BTRY. & CLAMP JOBS #2989274. If you look in the Gran Sport Supplement Manual, page 10-4, illustration 10-1, it shows clamp style battery cables. So I thought that I had it correct. However, when I had it judged at the 1999 BCA Nationals in Columbus, Ohio, they deducted a point for having the wrong style battery cable, they indicated that it should have been the spring ring style. Go figure.
John
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I have an NOS packard...postitve, still in the box its an old 60s green box..doesnt have a number printed on it...but its a HD cable with bolt on clamp, specific to the 65 GS...
red positive? ive had a few 65s never saw red cable, and mine is black, and has + on the clamp i believe...
i thought around 69 or 70 the cables went to red because of the side mount cables and they started color coding....hmmmm...
I just walked thru my shop..and not one of my 65-68s have red cables all are black, and spring rings, but my 65 is abolt on, and its black..my cars are unrestored originals...some have never been touched and waiting resto, but there isnt a red cable on any of them, my 66 GS is black too...12 65-68s no red cables
and i have 50 NOS cables and just went thru them and no reds..all black, until late 69 when the cables went to side posts, and some are black some red, but the part number decodes weather its a positive or neg...
and of course the positive cables are for the bigger postive top post..you can lay them next to each other ansd can see the diff....
so whats the story with the red positive cable..just wondering....it it a "wrong" repop? is it an assy plant thing? im really curious...
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my delco packard book, dated 1969 shows 2 cables for 65 Skylark GS,,,one is jsut a part number the other is a part number with a foot note saying heavy duty the one i have NOS is the heavy duty part with bolt on clamp...
very interesting stuff
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Sean Rogers, had these made! Negative number is 02983776 ( 17 .5 in long) black, positive 02987272 ( 25 in long) red ,measusred from center of clamp to center of terminal! these where made by packard electric! here are pics of clamp end! and both wires, neg. also has a body ground wire!
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I thought that I'd add my two cents worth to add to the confusion. In 1997 I bought a set of battery cables for my convertible. I bought them from a guy that had 100 sets specially made using the same manufacturer and the same "blueprints" that built them for Buick in 1965. I paid $100 for them but was very pleased with the quality, etc. They even had the part # printed on them, # 2989274 for the positive battery cable. Yes, they had the clamp type ends on them rather than the spring ring style. Yes, he sold them all.
John
John, I bought my cables from the same guy.
Mark, replacement cables may not be the same as what was used OEM on an assembly line. The guy who made the cables that John & I now have had them made directly from an original set. The set on Brian's car, the photo in post #7, are from an original as well. I can't speculate why the 65 pos. might be red. I do know they are supposed to be bolt-on clamp style.
Mark
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i will get some pics i got these out of a closed down Buick dealership..i got quite a few buick olds and pontiac cables...not a single red cable in the group til the side posts, and i left 50 because the boxes where torn and the cables where just ruined...no red cables in the ones i left either...
i have a bunch they are all real old stock as in nothing newer than 70....
im not disputing things so dont think that, im just extremely curious...i dig stuff like this..lol
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Anybody have a set of cables they're willing to sell for my 65? :headbang:
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I'm getting some bolt on "universal" things from Painless. Red posi wire, black neg, cut to fit.
Not correct, but neither is my paint job :occasion14:
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Heres th NOS one i have..it has a Packard number embossed on it..looks like it has a date on the box of 5-30-67 3rd shift
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/marxjunk/cutlassconv011.jpg)
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/marxjunk/cutlassconv012.jpg)
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/marxjunk/cutlassconv013.jpg)
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Mark,
68-70 bigblock used the same positive cable part# with the plastic block. They were Red. Not sure on these ealier cars.Lot's of times you know nos stuff isn't corrrect.
I'm suprised that M&H can't put a bolt on end? to the cables just spring ring. They can add the part# in the insulation. 100 sets X $100 ouch big investment. Especially if most the '65ers already bought cables.
Thanks for the pics and info.
DL
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Sean Rogers, had these made! Negative number is 02983776 ( 17 .5 in long) black, positive 02987272 ( 25 in long) red ,measusred from center of clamp to center of terminal! these where made by packard electric! here are pics of clamp end! and both wires, neg. also has a body ground wire!
Ground wire was my next question. 68 had them. Never had one on a 70 model.
DL
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The ground cable on a 65 should have a small 18 gage ground wire coming out of it and going down to a ring terminal on the fender well. If you look really close in the picture of mine you can see it--it turns down right after it comes out of the terminal, so hard to see against the black background of the fenderwell.
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I found this photo of a '65 Skylark GS engine bay from a Buick showroom literature piece introducting the 1965 GSs. It's shows a red positive battery cable. The photo is not clear enough to tell if it has spring ring or clamp style ends.
But as mention earlier, what the factory installed is not always the same thing as NOS parts sold over the dealership parts counter. With the NOS inventory that Mark has and his years of experience with automotive parts, I think this can only be the logical explanation.
Regarding M & H , I don't understand why they couldn't make a cable the correct length for a '65 and or have a choice as to what style of cable ends you want. Because of :occasion16:the longer delivery time when ordering, they probably don't keep an inventory, but rather make them as the order comes in (especially for the rare apps).
John
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Mark,
68-70 bigblock used the same positive cable part# with the plastic block. They
according to my Delco books, 68 69 and 70 all 3 have different part numbers my books are dated
may 1968,June 69, and may 70..it may be one of those deals where later they are superceeded and they use 1 cable as a service part
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Wow...thats pretty solid proof they are red...very cool..you can see in the one pic its a bolt on clamp..
probably should be enough proof for judging that spring rings are not correct
i looked for hrs and hrs never found that pic...and you are right assy line pieces are usually different than service pieces
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Great picture John. Your supply of original literature is amazing.
Maybe its just me but its interesting that the snorkel is on the drivers side. Thought the air cleaner base only fit with the snorkel on the passengers side.
Dan
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Dan,
If you play around with your air cleaner, you will find that it will fit either direction. I know that the CA air cleaners snorkels face the driver's side so that rubber hose can connect to the left valve cover.
John
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John,
Sure enough it will fit on either side. Not all the CA emissions air cleaner vented through the snorkel. What's with this one ?
Dan
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Dan, John,
I have seen both configurations on Cal. cars, A/C and non-A/C. There seems to be no consistency on those.
Another mystery....
The air cleaner on mine came from a Fremont car Brian bought that had A/C and the nose connects to the snorkel.
Mark
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I bet that a 60's Riviera or Wildcat enthusiast would know the answer to that question. I wonder if the CA emissions air cleaner's hose location is specific to certain production years.
John
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Where is Ted when you need him ? LOL
The picture I posted (from the gallery actually) is a CA A/C car that was for sale at Almeida's Classic Cars a while back. A jewel. It had the black maintenance label on it. Is that correct for a chrome single four air cleaner ?
Dan
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John, those hoses & the breather are 65 Cal. only. The California cars had A.I.R. in 66.
Dan, unsure if those decals ever got installed on the accessory air cleaners.
Maybe some did - maybe some didn't. I have a picture buried somewhere of an NOS
chrome/valve cover kit with the box, and don't recall seeing the decal on it.
Mark
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In 66, the CA cars had a smog pump on them as Mark stated, and it sat at the top between the radiator hose and drivers side valve cover--right in the real-estate where the snorkle would be for a setup with the hose to the snorkle. My theory is that they started changing over the air cleaners to the style with the breather tube going into the body instead of the snorkle sometime during late 65 GS production in preparation for the upcoming '66 GS models that would have the smog pump in that area and require the breather with the hose going into the body of the air cleaner.
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DL,
These are original 65 cables. The 65 GS all had bolt on terminals.
Mark
Brian,
is that a restoration battery ? or topper ? I haven't found a flat top battery yet, to use with a topper that's as tall as an original. Using the factory hold down clamps, they are to short .
DL
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John, those hoses & the breather are 65 Cal. only. The California cars had A.I.R. in 66.
Dan, unsure if those decals ever got installed on the accessory air cleaners.
Maybe some did - maybe some didn't. I have a picture buried somewhere of an NOS
chrome/valve cover kit with the box, and don't recall seeing the decal on it.
Mark
Oh great, going to have to crawl in the attic(187F :angryfire:) and check my chrome dress up kit for the emissions decal. I don't recall.
DL
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DL
If you make it up in attic could you also check the markings on top of the oil fill cap? Which version of hose to valve cover do you have?
Thanks
Milton
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I found this photo of a '65 Skylark GS engine bay from a Buick showroom literature piece introducting the 1965 GSs. It's shows a red positive battery cable. The photo is not clear enough to tell if it has spring ring or clamp style ends.
John
That's a nice piece of literature there John!
But I'm going to suggest that the early pics from Buick used in their advertising could be pre-production cars that don't necessarily have the exact same components as cars built on the assembly line. .... if only we could zoom in and read the cowl data plate we would have better information as to when that car was built! :icon_biggrin: The masked-off cowl tag suggests a Flint-built car.
Magazine road tests from 1965 may show more examples of red vs black, spring vs bolt battery cables.
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DL
If you make it up in attic could you also check the markings on top of the oil fill cap? Which version of hose to valve cover do you have?
Thanks
Milton
I have this filler cap. Can't say that it's correct.
DL
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I found this photo of a '65 Skylark GS engine bay from a Buick showroom literature piece introducing the 1965 GSs.
John
cool, the alternator arm appears bare with slight green overspray. And the hood latch is zinc dichromate like the master lid.
DL
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This is a photo out of a 1965 Motor Trend road test of the 65 GS. Article was in black and white but it appears the positive battery cable is lighter than than the negative indicating a red positive cable.
Dan
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.... if only we could zoom in and read the cowl data plate we would have better information as to when that car was built! The masked-off cowl tag suggests a Flint-built car.
The photo is not clear enough to read the trim tag. There is no date printed info, we can only speculate.
the alternator arm appears bare with slight green overspray.
From the photo, the alternator arm is painted Buick engine green. However, the very tip appears to be rusty.
Here's a couple of other photos that you may find interesting. Note that the one photo has the larger grille emblem. In the other photo the wheel insert may appear to be black, but it's really the dark gray.
John
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DL
Thanks for braving the weather in your attic.
Your Oil Fill cap pictured looks like it is also a valve cover breather. Is that true?
My Oil Fill cap looks more like a gas cap on the valve cover with AC stamped in it.
I have the California Beauty Kit with the hose attaching to the air cleaner body not the snorkel.
Thanks again for listing your information.
Milton
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DL
Thanks for braving the weather in your attic.
Your Oil Fill cap pictured looks like it is also a valve cover breather. Is that true?
My Oil Fill cap looks more like a gas cap on the valve cover with AC stamped in it.
I have the California Beauty Kit with the hose attaching to the air cleaner body not the snorkel.
Thanks again for listing your information.
Milton
Sorry Milton, you asked for the cap not the breather. Still looking for it.
DL