65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
General Discussion => GS Questions => Topic started by: Robk on August 17, 2009, 08:13:28 PM
-
Question #1. I need new exhaust manifolds. There are two sets on ebay right now. Any Ideas on which set would correct or best for my 65?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BUICK-NAILHEAD-RAT-ROD-MUSCLE-CAR-EXHAUST-MANIFOLDS_W0QQitemZ280384910968QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item41483e3678&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buick-nailhead-exhaust-manifolds-60-s_W0QQitemZ170351145329QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27a9b83171&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116
Question #2. There is a bracket under my hood that looks like it is suppose hold a small bottle. My dad (a street rod guy) thinks it's for washer fluid concentrate for mixing. Did 65 Gs's ever have a washer fluid mixing system? Any ideas?
Question #3 I am having trouble decoding my body plate (2nd line) it reads:
W 2LP 4S 5W Any help appreciated
As always, thank you. Rob Keena
-
Rob,
#1 - The first link you posted are the right ones for a GS. The other set won't fit.
#2 - Need a pic of the bracket!
#3 - Walt Kilgus or John Egle probably have the answers, or can get close.
Mark
-
Number 2- yes these cars had a spare washer fluid bottle. It's available at most of the Buick venders for around 75 bucks.
-
Joe, are you talking about the triangulr glass bottle ?
I thought $30.00 was high around here for them.
Rob, the glass bottle held a mixture that was for adding to the washer fluid tank and also a gas line deicer.
Original color was green . for what it's worth.
If the car had the windshield washer option, it had the holder and bottle.
Loren
-
Joe, are you talking about the triangulr glass bottle ?
I thought $30.00 was high around here for them.
Rob, the glass bottle held a mixture that was for adding to the washer fluid tank and also a gas line deicer.
Original color was green . for what it's worth.
If the car had the windshield washer option, it had the holder and bottle.
Loren
You maybe right Loren thanks.
I do remember I had to buy the bottle, cap and sticker. All seperate for purchase.
-
Rob,
I think the tag shows: W - tinted windshield, L - 4 speed transmission, P - backup lights (?), S - ?, W - retracting seat belts.
Of course if this is not correct someone will let us know.
Dan
-
As always thanks for the info. Does anyone know what the bottle is called or where I might go to find it? I also appreciate the help with the de-coding. That last part seems to be a mystery.
Rob K
-
Hi Rob,
Question #2. You can get an entire Optikleen Washer Bottle Kit from Original Parts Group. www.opgi.com It includes the bottle, lid, label and stainless steel bracket for around $50. Loren, I did not know that it should be green fluid. Here's a photo of mine with blue fluid.
Question #3. Here's what I have so far for your particular codes...
First group
W = Tinted windshield only
Second group
L = 4-speed transmission
P = not sure at this time, may be clock
Third group
You have none of these options. H = wide beltline trim at side windows, B = rear window defogger
Fourth group
S = not sure at this time, might be some trim code
Fifth group
W = Custom seat belts with retractors
Regarding the "P" code in the second Group, it has been suggested that it could be Push Button Radio, Rear Speaker, Clock or Back up lights. I am leaning towards Clock for these reasons. My convertible does not have a "P" code, however, it does have a Push Button Radio and Back up Lights. Most '65 GS came with these two options. When I was the Record Keeper of the '65 GS Registry, I went through all the information from submitted trim tags and compared with options listed. There was a pattern that if they had a clock, they also had the "P" code. Rob, does your GS have a factory clock? There was not enough data to eliminate a rear speaker as a possibility.
I would like to review these records again, but Chris has all the Registry documents now. Chris, feel like spending a weekend doing research?
Rob, you and Mark need to get together. Mark's work can be an inspiration to help you stay on target with your restoration. Good luck.
John Egel
-
Regarding the "P" code in the second Group, it has been suggested that it could be Push Button Radio, Rear Speaker, Clock or Back up lights. I am leaning towards Clock for these reasons. My convertible does not have a "P" code, however, it does have a Push Button Radio and Back up Lights. Most '65 GS came with these two options.
John Egel
John, This is what I am thinking....the data plate is from Fisher Body, so it generally only lists those options that require body modifications. Whether they be major mods like a floor shifter cutout, or minor mods like a remote control mirror that requires a hole in the door.
Options that can be installed on the assembly line would not need to be listed on the cowl plate. (Chrome wheels or hub caps)
Was the clock part of a 'convenience group' option package (like 1966) that also included a remote side mirror? If yes, it could have been one of the codes necessary on the cowl plate (since door would need additional holes drilled).
Rear speaker: One of my 66's has a blue wire for a rear speaker option. The wire is underneath the tar sound insulation on the floor. That would also have been installed at Fisher body, so rear speaker may also qualify as a cowl plate code.
You may already be aware of the Camaro assembly plant description here:
http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml#fishertrim
It's a great read!
-
John,
The only reason I know the fluid is green, is that , when I restored the Champagne GS, I had a good friend that was the parts manager at a Chevrolet dealership. He managed to find some original fluid for me. Some luck , hey.
"S" trim code?
Walt,
Yes , the clock was part of a convenience group. I think it also included the anti-glare mirror and trunk light?
I do know that the courtesy lights under the dash, the ash tray light, glove box light and the dual horns were standard on Skylarks. The dual speed wiper and washers were an option. Code?
Loren
-
Walt,
Your thoughts about the "P" code not being a clock code is very logical. There are no body piercing involved to add a clock. Any other ideas about what it could be?
I forgot to mention, that the second group of '65 Buick Skylark codes also contains an "R" code. Someone (maybe Jon T.) told me that was the rear speaker code. Which is the same code used by Oldsmobile in '65. http://442bro.com/ However, that may or may not pertain to Buick. The link that you had in your last post about the Camaro's was fantastic. Very thorough and informative. Some of those Fisher Body codes may or may not help with decoding some of our questions. Someday we may have all the answers.
John Egel
-
John, if the clock/convenience group included a remote side mirror then the door would have to have been drilled for the mirror control cable. Maybe Fisher body drilled the holes, or maybe it was done on Buick's assembly line. But then again, if the holes were punched in (not drilled), then I bet it was done at Fisher body....and the clock/convenience option would be a code on the cowl tag.
According to the Camaro build article, rear speakers and rear defrosters were installed by Fisher Body. Therefore they shoiuld both have corresponding codes.
Rear backup lamps.....Bumpers would have been installed on the Buick assembly line. So unless the b/u light required different wiring or additional switches, I would guess b/u light info would NOT be on the cowl tag.
Other codes? a 'short' storage consolette would require a bracket welded on the floor. Were rear seat belts and windshield washers standard or optional on the GS?
-
Guys,
You are undoubtedly correct in that the P code is not backup lights.
The convenience group is a very good possibility if it did not include the remote control mirror. The mirror is shown as a separate option on the order form so it probably was not included. My car has the P code and has a clock, anti-glare mirror and trunk light but NO remote mirror.
Dan
-
Guys,
I really appreciate all the insight. For what it's worth this car does not have a clock. It has a clock blank with no motor or hands but no working clock. It does have back up lights. No sign of a rear speaker, but this is a convertible so i can only guess where it would be since there is really no rear window deck.
Rob K
-
Rob
Hopefully this gets thru. sending a copy of both sides of an orig. order form and a copy of my shipping order.
Al
-
Guys,
The driver's side remote control mirror appears in the Fourth Group as code "F". I don't think that it's part of the convenience group options. Walt, that makes sense about the back-up lights being part of the bumper installation and would not be a part of Fisher Body codes. The shorty console is a possibility. However, I wonder if that bracket for the automatic console is the same as used for the 4-speed console? Do 4-speed GSs without a shorty console have that bracket? Dan, when you attempted to install the shorty console in your 4-speed, was there a small bracket welded to the floor? Rear speakers or rear window defrost does not sound correct. Rob has a convertible.
Rob, since you do not have a clock, which would not require body piercing anyway, that throws that theory out the window.
Al, you have a wealth of literature that I don't think anyone else has seen before. Keep 'em coming. Do you have anything regarding Fisher Body trim tag codes for the '65 Buick? Do you care to speculate what the "P' code may indicate.
I'm sure that one day we will figure all the codes out. Just gotta keep sharing and researching.
John Egel
-
Option code 2P is definitely back up lights.
-
John,
There was nothing on the floor of my car for the shorty console and it is definitely the original floor.
I think that 2 R is the rear seat speaker. Can anyone confirm that ? These were N/A on convertibles.
What about 'positive traction differential' ? Would that require a code ?
Dan
-
Hi Guys
I have removed several consolettes over the past 40 yrs. and have never seen a bracket for the consolette. The base was apparently put on over the shift handle (in neutral) then bolted down with 4 sheet metal bolts then the top plate was installed. ???
Per the order form, rear seat speaker or defroster was not avail on the converts.
Codes
All the codes I have are off the orig. owners manual Vehicle Ident. Plate installed by the dealer. None of the codes match the body tag.
I have never found any one that could point me in a direction at fisher body to get questions answered.
Enclosed is a copy of my info, hope it helps somewhere along the line
Al
-
Guys,
Just to clarify. . . the shorty console Walt and I made reference to is the storage console for GSs with the 4-speed. Not the 4-speed shifter consolette. Dan probably has a photo of one. The question I have, is a bracket welded to the floor necessary to bolt the shorty storage console to the floor. If so, is it the same bracket as what is welded to the floor that is necessary for bolting down the automatic's long consolete? Here is a photo of that bracket on a automatic car.
I just noticed on Rob's GS (from his registration) that he has a radio delete car. That would mean that Fisher Body would not need to punch an antennae hole in the fender. You don't suppose . . .
John
-
John,
From what I know about GM assembly, the front sheetmetal, or "chassis" sheetmetal, was not Fisher Body, but installed on the line after the bodies were delivered to the plant. Therefore, I'm thinking there wasn't a code for that (?).
Mark
-
Tom,
What makes you so sure that 2P is the backup lights ? C'mon, disclose your source. LOL
Per John's request a picture of the 'shorty console'.
Dan
-
Al, thanks for posting the pic of the build sheet you found under the carpet! That's the first I've seen of a 1965 build sheet. GREAT info. I guess the elusive 2P code would be on the portion that didn't survive.... That figures. :'(
There's a 1966 build sheet posted in the gallery for comparison.
-
Tom,
What makes you so sure that 2P is the backup lights ? C'mon, disclose your source. LOL
Per John's request a picture of the 'shorty console'.
Dan
That's is what Duane Heckman over on V8 and the BPG boards told me about my car when I asked him to decode the firewall tag a few years ago. I really don't have a reason to doubt him....... He told me then that he has many of those codes, butnot a complete set. I just took that as being 98.7368% correct. ;D ;D
-
Sorry guys. If my registration says "radio delete", then I made a mistake. My car has a radio so no help there on the body plate. These days you have to be a techie and a motor head. If I knew how to even find my registration info i would change it.
My car's options (or lack thereof) are manual windows, 4spd, am radio, no clock, no special trim, back up lights, rally wheels (appear original), tinted windshield, window washer, no consolette, no remote conttrol mirror, no positraction
The plate says:
W 2 LP 4S 5w
vin is 444675H250245
Appears to have been built in April 65. I wrote to the sloan museum to see if they had any info on my car. they didn't. They sent me a blank (options) order form from back then, which I presume you guys have seen.
Rob K
-
Rob
Is the posts i put on last night large enough to read? If not i will repost larger. I have been told it is to small to read or print?
The front shows the codes for all 3 GS's models. The back then describes the equipment in the various "packages".
The build plate is good for checking color, build date,int. color, body style, and series.
Will be posting another sheet shortly on options / prices. These are from the "buick salesman's pocket directory".
Al ;D
-
Tim, Duane is a very knowledgeable man. Knows lots about Buick's. Based on his opinion and Rob's description of his car I am going back to my original answer - 2P = backup lights. ::)
Al, thanks for the postings !! Glad to see you on this site.
Dan
-
John, nut465gs I have taken many consolettes and short storage consoles out and they were all screwed to the floor no bracket! (skylarks ,gs ). In big cars that I have taken storage consoles out of they were cut different on the bottom to match the shape of the floor and some had the bracket, if they used the iron board style storage console (early not correct for gs as they sit to high and you can not put your car in 4th gear!) . Hope this helps! John and others did you see the 4S W15 code also on the built sheet ( gran sport!) and the 3B code for rear defog? WOW! I just saw a 65 lark that was original with the storage console and had a 2o code on the firewall!, it had 31,000 miles!Jon
-
Hi guys
Enclosed is the copy for factory installed options on the 65 specials.
The only ref I can find for code 2P or P2 is for carpet savers. This comes from the salesmans handbook and the factory order sheet.
Have contacted several people that used to work in fisher body in Flint, nothing yet.
Al
p.s. as a heart patient, on lasix, go easy on the 2P. ;D ;D LOL