65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Drivetrain => The Nailhead => Topic started by: elagache on June 21, 2016, 11:04:14 AM
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Dear mid-60s Buick "gotta luv' d'em engines" types,
I'm suffering from way too many choices when it comes to motor oils. I've come to agree with the recommendation that you should buy a motor oil that is specifically formulated for engines of the 1960s rather than buying a modern oil and using additives that include things like ZDDP. Since the engine in my trusty wagon has a racing pedigree, I've been using a racing type oil: Joe Gibbs HR Conventional 10W-30:
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/hr2-conventional-10w-156html/ (http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/hr2-conventional-10w-156html/)
According to Randal (the silver Buick on V-8 Buick,) these oils need to be replaced every 1000 miles because the additives aren't formulated to last longer than that. It seems a bit odd, but perhaps that is reasonable for a engine that is exposed to the stresses of racing.
My trusty wagon is no racer and the engine rarely gets over 3000 RPM. So I have the feeling I'm using the wrong oil for my application. So what are you guys who just drive your mid-60s Buick using for oil? Have you guys narrowed down on a better choice for an oil formulated for engines of this period and intended for just driving around rather than racing?
Curious minds want to know!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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The Joe Gibbs Racing oil is non-detergent, that is why they say to change it at 1000 miles. Same thing with the Valvoline conventional racing oil that NAPA sells.
I run Shell Rotella 10w-30 along with a bottle of comp-cams break in additive (ZDDP additive). You can get the break in additive from Summit Racing for about $12 a bottle.
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Brad Penn in whatever viscosity you like. Comes with zinc in the formula.
Dan
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I run amsoil zrod in my buicks 10-30wt. In my new engine I just built for my special I'm running joe Gibbs hr2 conventional. I'll switch it to synthetic once get some miles on her.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The Driven oils are not non-detergent, they just contain less detergents and more friction modifiers. The HR (hot rod) oils are specifically formulated for engines that sit for long periods between work.
I too am running the HR dino oil and will likely switch to Synth after a full season of driving.
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I run Castrol or Kendall but add a bottle of Zddp also.
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I run Joe Gibbs in my 3 buicks and the other 7 cars I mantain
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Dear Brian, Dan, Dan, Buick_65, Jim, Starc Traxler, and mid-60s Buick "give 'em luvin' oil" engine fans,
Hmm, well there is definitely a consensus toward Joe Gibbs!
So how many miles do you guys go between oil changes when you use Joe Gibbs HR oils?
Brad Penn in whatever viscosity you like. Comes with zinc in the formula.
That's the other brand I've heard. Hmm, their website is a bit weak:
http://www.penngrade.com/ (http://www.penngrade.com/)
It doesn't list the available viscosity choices. However, put a search engine to work and . . . . well now, plenty of courses including the synthetic blends that seemed like an interesting compromise.
Oh well, it is a bit late in the day, but clearly I need to do some more research!
Thanks guys for the responses!! :icon_thumright:
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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I'm with Dan. I'll be running Brad Penn in my cars.
Chuck
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For what it's worth, I also use Bran Penn 10W30. And do most of the really fast BBB cars.
Jerry
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Brad Penn for me too . My race engine builder recommends it , he even has me run a bottle of Lucas engine oil break in additive . ( which is basically a zinc additive )
Its probably not needed in a factory muscle or classic car engines but under the Extreme pressures and high rpm,s its highly recommended in racing applications .
I doubt nailheads will ever see 9000 rpm.
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I doubt nailheads will ever see 9000 rpm.
I know mine won't!!! :cheers2:
Chuck
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At nine grand parts of my nailhead would be in the next county.
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I think you can get them up to over 7,000, once.
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Dear Chuck, Jerry, John, Kevin, Jim, and mid-60s "gotta 'luv dat engine" types,
Brad Penn for me too . My race engine builder recommends it . . .
Well your engine builder has some good company. Mike Tomaszewski, owner of TA-Performance, also mentioned Brad Penn as his first choice. Although Joe Gibbs was Mike's #2 backup.
For what it's worth, I also use Bran Penn 10W30. And do most of the really fast BBB cars.
(http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/wink_smile_triangle.gif). . . Well that's okay for fast BBB cars, but what is the best oil for "assertive" family station wagons? . . . (http://www.canebas.org/Automotive/V8_Buick/Misc/Biquette_V8_Buick_signature.gif)
Seriously, I'll go for the 10W-30, but which kind of oil? Are you guys more into exploiting dinosaurs, synthetic oils, or dino/synthetic blends? (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/scratch_head.gif) It seems Brad Penn gives you all 3 choices.
One curious wagon owner would like to know! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/smiley.gif)
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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I use Brad Penn in mine cause It's green :rocker:
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Dear Harle and mid-60s Buick . . . . . automobile environment advocates . . . . . :laughing7:
I use Brad Penn in mine cause It's green :rocker:
(http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/wink_smile_triangle.gif) . . . What do ya' mean green? Either it has to be nailhead green or nuthin'!! . . . . :overthetop:
Seriously, I needed to spend to some time today looking over what Brad Penn actually offers and I never made it. Hopefully tomorrow I'll investigate and can perhaps ask some more meaningful questions!
Stay tuned! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/tune_in_TV_emoticon.gif)
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Dear mid-60s Buick caregivers who love bargains,
Okay, so I started to look into Brad Penn's product line and looked into availability and prices. I get on the Amazon website and look up Brad Penn 5W-30 and at least on my computer it comes up as a box of 12 quarts for $16.62.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EADLBDI/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me= (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EADLBDI/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=)
I just can't believe it. The next lowest price on Amazon is $87.20 and Summit sells a box of 12 for 98.97. Could somebody click on the link above and tell me what they see?
Signed very puzzled, Edouard
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Tough call, the description doesn't say what the quantity is.
However, in other listings:
Pn 009-7109 is one quart
pn 009-7109-12 is a case of 12
But the shipping weight of 19 pounds and dimensions of 13.2 x 10 x 9.4 inches sure makes it sound like it's a case.
Even the Q&A says it's a case of 12.... and that's 2 years old.
Sometimes Amazon sells items at blow out prices. Or maybe the dimensions and weight are a mistake. :dontknow:
Might be worth the gamble. Worst case it's for 1 qt and you either keep it and pay too much for it, or return it for a refund and pay shipping.
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Looks like that package may be on "close-out" or something. Sounds like a case to me.
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Just ordered some. Thanks for the tip, Edouard!
A great weekend to all!
:occasion14:
Chuck
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Dear Walt, Jim, Chuck, and mid-60s Buick "bargain hunters" . . . .
Just ordered some. Thanks for the tip, Edouard!
Well, I guess that answers the question of whether or not everyone else was seeing the same $17.
So did you have it shipped via second day air?
Well, I have Amazon prime (it's a long story) so I get second day air shipping for free. So this "case" supposed to arrive on Sunday. . . . . .
I repeat . . . stay tuned! (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/tune_in_TV_emoticon.gif)
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Just found out my friend runs the Bradd Penn oil in his Chevelle, $60 a case at Napa. I may have to try it too. Although it looks like it is the same company as Kendall and the same oil wells.
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The motor guru here says that Kendall was bought out by Texaco or someone and now uses the same oil as everyone else. Brad Penn uses the high paraffin oil found in Pennsylvania and other places in the east.
Dan
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Dear Walt, Jim, Chuck, and mid-60s Buick "bargain hunters" . . . .
Just ordered some. Thanks for the tip, Edouard!
So did you have it shipped via second day air?
Well, I have Amazon prime (it's a long story) so I get second day air shipping for free. So this "case" supposed to arrive on Sunday. . . . . .
I repeat . . . stay tuned! ([url]http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/tune_in_TV_emoticon.gif[/url])
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
I also have Amazon Prime, but this one is a bit strange. Said it was in stock and available for Prime shipping, but when I ordered, it said arrival by July 15. Now I have my shipping confirmation and it says it will be here on Friday, July 1. Certainly not 2-day shipping that's advertised for Prime, but for the price, I'm not unhappy and don't really need it yet anyway. I bought a case of the Brad Penn break-in oil from my engine machine shop so I'm actually good for awhile. That was 10W-30 dino oil for $78 a case.
Chuck
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The motor guru here says that Kendall was bought out by Texaco or someone and now uses the same oil as everyone else. Brad Penn uses the high paraffin oil found in Pennsylvania and other places in the east.
Dan
Looks like you're right, the company was bought and sold a few times. I'm sure the quality has dropped, seems to be a common theme whether you're talking oil, furniture, or whatever.
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Dear Jim, Dan, Chuck, and mid-60s Buick bargain hunters,
I also have Amazon Prime, but this one is a bit strange. Said it was in stock and available for Prime shipping, but when I ordered, it said arrival by July 15. Now I have my shipping confirmation and it says it will be here on Friday, July 1. Certainly not 2-day shipping that's advertised for Prime, but for the price, I'm not unhappy and don't really need it yet anyway.
I just checked and Amazon claims that my case is going to arrive tomorrow via the Post Office!! Amazon is definitely muscling in to new shipping schemes. They just launched their own 2-hour delivery service in the greater San Francisco bay area using a mix of their own delivery trucks and drop-shipping to your local post office. It is amazing to see the Post Office delivering packages on Sunday when they won't deliver the mail on Sunday!
As soon as I have the case in hand I'll report on whether or not it truly is the real McCoy.
I bought a case of the Brad Penn break-in oil from my engine machine shop so I'm actually good for awhile. That was 10W-30 dino oil for $78 a case.
I'm also in the same boat. Mike Tomaszewski recommended that I go at least another 1000 miles on dino oil before switching to any sort of synthetic. So this purely a case of bargain hunting. We shall see!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Bargain hunting for sure. I'll use up all the break-in oil before moving on to the semi-synthetic. In theory, that will get all the gaskets properly expanded and seated before the synthetic hits them.
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.....I just checked and Amazon claims that my case is going to arrive tomorrow via the Post Office!!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
Edouard, does any of the shipping info you received show that it's a 19 pound case and not just a quart?
I mulled over taking the chance it's a case and bought the last one last night! Due on Tuesday. :thumbsup:
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My tracking number isn't showing info yet on UPS.com. But I checked on other sellers of Brad Penn oils and all reference the BP part number we ordered to a case of 12 quarts. I really doubt that we will be disappointed!
Chuck
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Looks like the price changed now. Did you guys really order 5w-30 though?
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Dear Walt, Chuck,
Edouard, does any of the shipping info you received show that it's a 19 pound case and not just a quart?
Well the box arrived this morning and inside was . . . . a single quart. :crybaby2:
So I'm returning it as the wrong item shipped. Oh well, it was worth taking a chance.
I mulled over taking the chance it's a case and bought the last one last night! Due on Tuesday. :thumbsup:
If you have any chance, you might want to cancel that order.
Looks like the price changed now.
Actually, not it hasn't. Since they are out, Amazon isn't listed as the top supplier. If you look on the side-bar, you'll find Amazon as a seller with the same price of $16.62. So Amazon still hasn't straightened out this inventory error.
Oh well, I really didn't need the oil, but that would have been one amazing bargain!
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Drats.
Thanks for reporting back.
I submitted a cancellation request to Amazon but it failed, too late.
Oh well, it was worth the chance!
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Hi Walt and mid-60s Buick bargain hunters,
Drats.
Thanks for reporting back.
I submitted a cancellation request to Amazon but it failed, too late.
I'm returning the quart for a full refund. After all what I ordered was a case and that isn't what a received. So I told Amazon they shipped the wrong item and they are giving me a full refund and free return shipping. The product description is clearly for a case, so we should all do the same. It's Amazon's mistake, we shouldn't pay a dime for their own folly.
Cheers, Edouard
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Getting back to the original question of which oil to use, I'd suggest researching Sequence IIIG engine testing or consult someone who is knowledgeable with this test.
The test looks at oil thickening (viscosity increase), piston deposits, oil consumption, and valve train wear. The test engine is a flat tappet 3.8L GM v6.
Test parameters are 3600 rpm with a 250 nm load applied for 100 hours. Oil temp is maintained at 150˚C, coolant at 115˚C, and afr is 15.0:1.
My point is, don't look to much at claims in advertisements, you may not need to spend the additional cash paying for them.
Off hand, I do not know the API rating of the reference oil for this test. I'll try to get this information today as that rating may give you a good indication of what a flat tappet motor needs with regard to additive package (ZDDP content).
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Dear RVA65GS and mid-60s Buick "gotta luv' d'em engines" caregivers,
Getting back to the original question of which oil to use, I'd suggest researching Sequence IIIG engine testing or consult someone who is knowledgeable with this test.
. . . .
I'll try to get this information today as that rating may give you a good indication of what a flat tappet motor needs with regard to additive package (ZDDP content).
Well the oil I'm using now was recommended by Mike Tomaszewski who owns TA-Performance and rebuilt this engine a second time after the real crankshaft bearing failed. This engine is is modernized Buick big-block instead of a nailhead and it has hydraulic roller camshaft, roller rockers and quite a few modern features that in principle should allow it to work with modern oils. Nonetheless, Mike recommends sticking with oils formulated for engines of the 1960s since not everything is modernized.
Also, the recommendation is err on the side of thin oils for the Buick big-block. The oil passages are known to be too small for engines of this size. There are a set of oil passage modifications that are normally applied to these engines and this engine was no exception. Nonetheless given this weakness and the mild California climate, a thinner oil is a prudent choice.
Thanks for your offering your suggestions though! :icon_thumright:
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14: