65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Polishmeatballpizza on January 30, 2017, 12:10:34 AM
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I know I don't need one yet, however, I was at the Grand National Roadster Show today, and stopped by a booth where they do steering wheel restorations. The guy told me it would be $1300 if I had a core. Wow. REALLY?
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Dear George and mid-60s Buick restorers,
I know I don't need one yet, however, I was at the Grand National Roadster Show today, and stopped by a booth where they do steering wheel restorations. The guy told me it would be $1300 if I had a core. Wow. REALLY?
I haven't checked the prices, but unfortunately, restoring a 1965 Buick steering wheel is particularly difficult. I don't know if you saw the steering wheel that Loren sold recently:
http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=3263.msg22464#msg22464 (http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=3263.msg22464#msg22464)
Loren sold it for $450 and it sold literally within hours. That was only the steering wheel and not the chrome horn bar. If the fellow proposing to restore your steering wheel was going to restore everything, $1300 might not be completely outrageous.
That's why I went another route and adapted a Grant steering wheel. These days the Buick rally steering wheel is also reproduced which is more authentic but alas clearly not original.
It doesn't exactly feel that way, but our cars are over 50 years old. When I first started taking car of my trusty wagon, the car was only 30 years old - it didn't seem to difficult. If back then, somebody had offered me a 1940s Buick, I would have run away screaming. We all need to have that reality check - a 50 year old car is one for which some parts are going to be very hard to find.
Oh well, . . . . Edouard
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George,
Depends on the condition of the wheel. Can you post a few pics?
You can have them restored, but they will always crack again to some extent.
I think plastics technology is much better now than the mid-60s.
Mark
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Was it Quality Restorations from San Diego?
They can recast them. There isn't a price on their webpage.
http://qualityrestorations.com/buick/nggallery/page/2 (http://qualityrestorations.com/buick/nggallery/page/2)
Koch's Steering Wheel Restoration has a 64-65 mold but also doesn't list a price. Many other wheels are in the $300-900 range.
http://www.kochssteeringwheels.com/productcart/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=2 (http://www.kochssteeringwheels.com/productcart/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=2)
Another alternative is to use a later rally wheel or a repo wood rimmed wheel.
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Walt, thanks for the source.
I contacted Koch today for some information. The mold they have is correct for the "Deluxe" steering wheel used on '65 and '66 Skylark / GS. It was also used in '64 as an upgrade.
Cost is $450/ wheel and they would use your core. This includes painted to your color in a baked urethane.
I inquired about a discount for a multiple order made at one time. There is a break at quantities of 5 and then at 10.
Return shipping cost would run $40- $60 with insurance per wheel.
Turn around time is 10 to 12 weeks.
Loren
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I know I don't need one yet, however, I was at the Grand National Roadster Show today, and stopped by a booth where they do steering wheel restorations. The guy told me it would be $1300 if I had a core. Wow. REALLY?
George,
I think the person you spoke with may have been with Quality Restorations.
I called today and spoke with Dennis. The process used by Quality Restorations [QR] is different then Koch in that QR casts the color in the plastic at the time of molding. Then there is hand work of sanding and polishing the wheel. With this, the color goes all the way through ton the frame. They offer a lifetime warranty. Cost is $1300 and you supply a core.
With the Koch wheels, it is painted after the casting is done.
Just some more information,
Loren
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Dear Mark, Walt, Loren, and mid-60s Buick restoration "perfectionists,"
Thanks for all the interesting info! :icon_thumright: You always learn more when you come to "real source of expertise!" (http://www.canebas.org/WeatherCat/Forum_support_documents/Custom_emoticons/scholarly_teacher.gif)
Unfortunately even if you restore the plastic part of the steering wheel, your car will still look crummy until you restore the chrome horn bar. That sure looked impossible to me when I hit this problem a few years back. Still, the chrome parts should be straightforward to apply a fresh layer of chrome. Certainly Custom Metal Finishing (http://www.chromeplatingin.com/index.html) ought to be able to get that job done. That leaves putting back the paint behind the world "Buick." Loren, have you thought to ask your airbrush master if he could manage to successfully mask the horn bar?
This is all purely hypothetical and "pie in the sky," but it doesn't seem as impossible as I thought it was just a few year ago.
Food for thought . . . . . . Edouard
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I haven't looked into redoing the horn bar. I'll have to inquire.
Loren
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Walt, thanks for the source.
I contacted Koch today for some information......
Loren, I had found both of those wheel restorers in a quick Google search. I can't personally recommend either of them since I have no experience with either.
I'm glad you did contact them to get additional information. Koch sounds like it may be a very good option considering you get all new plastic. Price seems fair considering all the labor that is involved. :thumbsup:
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Dear Loren, Walt, and mid-60s Buick perfectionists,
I haven't looked into redoing the horn bar. I'll have to inquire.
Thanks Loren! :icon_thumright: The 1965 steering wheel was a very important component in setting the feel of the dash. Given the desire for authenticity that folks on this board have, it is only a matter of time before someone will want to go the whole nine-yards in restoring the steering wheel. So if a scheme could be found to restore the horn bar, that would be one step closer to a car that would win a BCA award.
Cheers, Edouard
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Thanks for the replies. I have a long way to go before I need one, I was just wondering. I guess they are pretty rare.
I don't have an original, there was a crappy aftermarket on the car when I got it.
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Thanks for the replies. I have a long way to go before I need one, I was just wondering. I guess they are pretty rare.
I don't have an original, there was a crappy aftermarket on the car when I got it.
It isn't so much that they are rare, but more that they all crack.
Loren
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Loren, how much of a break in price is given by Koch for the quantities mentioned?
Also, did they tell you what kind of plastic they use? Ability to resist cracking, vs the original material?
Thanks in advance?
PS: Why did Frank stop doing his wheels? Where is his mold?
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There is another company, D and D Automotive, that does wheel recasting and other plastic casting work.
Brian Stone had his wheel recast in red by them, and it is a beauty. Not cheap though, I think it was in the range
mentioned for Quality (Walt's post on 1/30/17).
Mark
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Loren, how much of a break in price is given by Koch for the quantities mentioned?
Also, did they tell you what kind of plastic they use? Ability to resist cracking, vs the original material?
Thanks in advance?
PS: Why did Frank stop doing his wheels? Where is his mold?
When I contacted Frank, he did not want to elaborate on his decision and I was given a flat NO on purchasing the mold.
That is about it on that
On Koch's
A quantity of 5 - 9 would run $400 each plus the return shipping.
A quantity of 10 and more would run $375 each plus the return shipping.
Shipping is estimated at $40 - $60 with $1000 insurance.
I originally did not get any information on the type of plastic.
So, I called again today and have some answers.
The folks at Koch's seem very friendly and willing to help.
The wheel is recast in a poly urethane plastic which has a UV stabilizer in it. It is then finished in your color choice with a poly urethane paint.
They guarantee their work with a life time warranty.
Turn around time is 8 -12 weeks , pending time of year.
Loren
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I am probably interested in a wheel since I put my wheel from Frank on the '65 and still need another one.
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If we are doing a join group on the wheel ,I'm in. Let me know.
kicking Dust.
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Dear Jim, Barb, and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Somebody remind me . . . the steering wheels for the 1964 Buick A-Bodies are identical to the 1965 - correct?
I think it will take some time to get enough folks interested to make a group purchase, but it doesn't hurt to ask anyone you know who might be interested. I tried to plant some interest with a fellow in Finland of all places who introduced himself on V-8 Buick. I have a friend with a 1964 Skylark. This might be right up his alley.
Think of it as mid-60s Buick "evangelizing". . . . . :angel4:
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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My 64 skylark definitely had the same wheel,and I believe all skylarks had it. The Buick special wheel is a plain wheel with the round center cap and I am not sure if the special had an upgrade option on the wheel. So,as long as it retains the long horn button it is the same from 1964-6. Keeping in mind that the 66 uses a different style horn button with two small black horn contacts rather than one continuous bar.
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Dear Dan, Loren, and mid-60s Buick taxonomy experts,
My 64 skylark definitely had the same wheel,and I believe all skylarks had it.
Yup, agreed on that one!
The Buick special wheel is a plain wheel with the round center cap and I am not sure if the special had an upgrade option on the wheel.
Okay, you jogged my memory on this one. Yes the Buick "Special" (without any upgrades) had a simple plastic steering wheel with a round horn button. The "Deluxe Special" series featured the same steering wheel as the Skylark. Out of curiosity, I just checked the production figures for the 1965 model year from our friends at Team Buick:
https://www.teambuick.com/reference/years/65.php (https://www.teambuick.com/reference/years/65.php)
There were definitely more base model Specials than Deluxe Specials built. My sense though is that the base models are now extremely rare because I suppose people didn't feel much of a need to keep those cars.
So,as long as it retains the long horn button it is the same from 1964-6. Keeping in mind that the 66 uses a different style horn button with two small black horn contacts rather than one continuous bar.
Okay, I didn't know the plastic part of the steering wheel was carried on for the 1966 model year.
Now that I've taken thread further off-topic, Loren, would it be worth either splitting off the group-buy or perhaps simply starting a new sticky thread with the same info as your posting?
http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=3280.msg22624#msg22624 (http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=3280.msg22624#msg22624)
That way it will be easier to keep track of the folks actually interested in joining the group purchase?
Just a thought . . . . . Edouard
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Now that I've taken thread further off-topic, Loren, would it be worth either splitting off the group-buy or perhaps simply starting a new sticky thread with the same info as your posting?
http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=3280.msg22624#msg22624 (http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=3280.msg22624#msg22624)
That way it will be easier to keep track of the folks actually interested in joining the group purchase?
Just a thought . . . . . Edouard
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Very good point Edouard.
Loren
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I just sent my steering wheel to Koch's just before Christmas 2016 after a great deal of research. Faced with a $1300 restoration plus shipping or $450 plus shipping I decided to send it to Koch's. I'm sure the color being cast into the plastic would be much better but I decided that for the $850 difference I could repaint it a few times myself if needed. I will post some photos of the Koch restoration when I receive the wheel back so everyone can see what their work looks like. They were very nice people to talk to and they did call me when they received the wheel to make sure that I had kept all the parts off the wheel and to confirm the color Astro Poly blue. I will also have a Grant wheel for sale if the restored wheel looks good.
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Here are some photo's of the restored steering wheel. I had some grinding to do to get the horn button assembly to fit but other than that they did a nice job.
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That really looks great! So how much is it to get a wheel looking like that? I also need an Astro blue one.
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Thanks Loren.
Add me to the count for a Koch steering wheel.
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Dear McNew, Jim, Michael, and mid-60s Buick owners who prefer to have a working steering wheel!
I just sent my steering wheel to Koch's just before Christmas 2016 after a great deal of research.
Hmmm, very interesting! Is this the outfit you used?
www.kochssteeringwheels.com/ (http://www.kochssteeringwheels.com/)
Thanks for sharing! :icon_thumright:
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Yes that's the folks that did the work on the wheel. Koch's P.O. Box 959, 7650 Soledad Canon Rd. Acton, CA 93510 661-268-1341. I shipped the wheel with tracking, stripped down and they called me within three day of receiving the wheel to make sure that I had only sent the wheel. I would advise sending the horn button assembly so they could fit it as I had to do some grinding. They then called me again a few days later to double check on the color because the wheel was in bad shape and very discolored. I took almost 3 months then they called again for payment. I asked them to make sure they packaged so it wouldn't get damaged. They told me that if it did get damage they would repair it for no cost to me. I received the wheel undamaged it was packaged very well. The cost was $450 and shipping both ways.
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Please put me on the list for a Koch group purchase. (Is anyone keeping a list? - should we start a new topic)) In my view, ideally we would wait until after the driving season and send them around November so that we get them back for the next warm weather.
Rob
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Please put me on the list for a Koch group purchase. (Is anyone keeping a list? - should we start a new topic)) In my view, ideally we would wait until after the driving season and send them around November so that we get them back for the next warm weather.
Rob
Or we send a box or two of cores. lol
Loren
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Please put me on the list for a Koch group purchase. (Is anyone keeping a list? - should we start a new topic)) In my view, ideally we would wait until after the driving season and send them around November so that we get them back for the next warm weather.
Rob
Or we send a box or two of cores. lol
Loren
Loren - Realize this is probably not a good time but was wondering if this effort moved forward and perhaps I missed it. Several years ago I just about bought one of Frank's but thought I could wait until later....
Dwaine
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Please put me on the list for a Koch group purchase. (Is anyone keeping a list? - should we start a new topic)) In my view, ideally we would wait until after the driving season and send them around November so that we get them back for the next warm weather.
Rob
Or we send a box or two of cores. lol
Loren
Loren - Realize this is probably not a good time but was wondering if this effort moved forward and perhaps I missed it. Several years ago I just about bought one of Frank's but thought I could wait until later....
Dwaine
Dwaine,
I hadn't visited this thread for a long time. I think it may be time to start a separate thread for a group buy.
As far as the timing, it should be fine. I'm doing fine with the treatments.
I will post a thread for this project and get back in contact with them again.
Loren
P.S. Hope you are feeling better. You still owe me a phone call.
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interesting thread. I still use my cracked wheel because I like the look of the original wheel.
And as Edouard mentioned the horn bar is a separate issue. But, those come up on ebay every now and then, and I think they could be restored fairly well with some elbow grease and touch-up paint.
Years ago eastwood advertised a kit in which they supplied some epoxy to fill in the cracks and then something for color. I don't know of anyone who tried this, though. It was about $100.
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Dear Iain and mid-60s Buick fans of originality,
interesting thread. I still use my cracked wheel because I like the look of the original wheel.
I agree that the original steering wheel was very elegant. Certainly if there had been a way to get a replacement wheel back when I redid my dash I would have gone that route. Now that a group purchase is underway, you might consider that:
http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=3876.msg27371#msg27371 (http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=3876.msg27371#msg27371)
And as Edouard mentioned the horn bar is a separate issue. But, those come up on ebay every now and then, and I think they could be restored fairly well with some elbow grease and touch-up paint.
It all depends on how nice you want the result to turn out to be. Alas already by 1965, GM appears to have been skimping on the interior chrome. Most of the interior chrome in my trusty wagon was seriously pitted while the exterior chrome still looks very good. Considering that my wagon was well cared for to the point that the dash pad is still original, that doesn't bode well for the horn bars of the period. If you really want a factory fresh horn bar, it will take a more substantial restoration.
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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That's intetesting, Edouard. Now that I think of it, yes, gm did skimp on interior chrome. I don't have much, and the ashtrays come to mind as being badly pitted.
Yet, the chrome on the horn bar is plastic. So some careful cleaning and polishing can make those look really nice. Flat black touch up makes the BUICK stand out.
I would think it would be odd if the round horn piece has chromed metal, does it?
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Dear Iain and mid-60s Buick caregivers,
Yet, the chrome on the horn bar is plastic. So some careful cleaning and polishing can make those look really nice.
Huh? :icon_scratch: The horn bar is pot metal - not plastic. The technology to coat chrome on plastic didn't come until around 2000. It isn't hard to remove the horn bar - there are 4 Phillips screws behind the bar that secure it. I don't remember why I had to remove the bar, but it is a very substantial piece of metal. So restoring the shine on that is the same problem as for any other part made of that sort of metal.
Cheers, Edouard
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...... The technology to coat chrome on plastic didn't come until around 2000. ....
No it goes back much further.... our 65-66's do have some chrome plated plastic. Best example is the dash knobs for lights., wipers, etc ('66 anyway... I haven't been inside my 65 in waaay too long.) They get heavy use so it's a fairly thick plating. If you see one failing, you'll notice other metals beneath the chrome such as copper.
On the other hand, while armrest bases appear to be chromed, they are actually vaporized aluminum. They supposedly don't handled as much so a thinner shiny aluminum coating with a protective over coat suffices for a few years. Same process is used on the 'chrome' on model car kits and the back side of mirrors.
But I digress!..... I actually have experience with vapor-deposited coatings during my engineering career in the optical coating business. I've done highly reflective metal coatings like aluminum and gold, 75 layer dielectric coatings (about 3 days worth) with 99.99% reflection at a single wavelength, and even more anti-reflection coatings to reduce the normal 8% reflection on an instrument lens down to under 0.25% reflection. It's a neat technology that uses components like cryogenic pumps operating at 15 degrees Kelvin, electron beams to vaporize Titanium, and Ion guns to clean and improve the density of coatings. I even got to meet one of the great Russian engineers that was instrumental in developing the ion guns for the space program.
End digress!.....
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Dear Walt and mid-60s Buick owners with interesting information to share!
No it goes back much further.... our 65-66's do have some chrome plated plastic.
Mea Culpa! About the time I went to bed I recalled that chrome deposits on plastic did exist for interior parts by the 1960s. The process I was referring to was the one they now use to create chrome plated plastic for exterior parts. I suppose there was a problem with these coatings withstanding the elements. I saw a "How do they do it?" documentary where they explained the process now used for exterior chrome-plated panels.
Do you know what was problem with chrome-plated plastic and how they solved it?
Cheers, Edouard :occasion14:
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Please put me on the list for a Koch group purchase. (Is anyone keeping a list? - should we start a new topic)) In my view, ideally we would wait until after the driving season and send them around November so that we get them back for the next warm weather.
Rob
Or we send a box or two of cores. lol
Loren
Loren - Realize this is probably not a good time but was wondering if this effort moved forward and perhaps I missed it. Several years ago I just about bought one of Frank's but thought I could wait until later....
Dwaine
Dwaine,
I hadn't visited this thread for a long time. I think it may be time to start a separate thread for a group buy.
As far as the timing, it should be fine. I'm doing fine with the treatments.
I will post a thread for this project and get back in contact with them again.
Loren
P.S. Hope you are feeling better. You still owe me a phone call.
I would definitely participate in a group buy if it materializes. I have a decent core in my possession. Glad to hear you are doing well Loren.
Best regards,
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Ok, Todd.
I am going to add you to the list.
Loren