65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: 1bigdog on February 14, 2012, 01:21:47 PM
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I would like to get your collective opinion, I recently purchased a 65 skylark conv with a 300 2v motor. The car is a one owner vehicle completely stock with 149k miles on it. I have all the maint records from day one. Mechanically everything is original with the exception of a new carb and master cylinder.
My question is, in my desire to get some improved performance from the car, would it be best to massage the 300 or pickup up a 401 to drop in it. I plan on getting a 200-4r tranny and posi rearend. There is a 401 advertised locally for $600, I assume it would need to be rebuilt. Not knowing which direction I was going to head, I have already picked up a 4v intake and carb.
Of course I would retain all the original parts to refit should I or a future owner desire to do so.
I would appreciate your opinions on this, thanks.
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Do you have a 65 cast iron 4bbl intake, or one of the 64 aluminum intakes? I would keep the original ST300 transmission if it were mine.
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Replacing the 300 motor with a 401 is pricey. It is a tight fit and requires special motor mounts and exhaust manifolds. Lots of other small items too that I am missing no doubt. For the money it would require to do that the 300 could probably be upgraded substantially.
Dan
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And don't forget that a rear sump oil pan would be needed. The radiator would also need to be a 4 core to keep that 401 cool. The extra weight in the front might require heavier springs. This swap can be done, but it requires some thought into all the other component necessary.
John
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As the others have pointed out, there is a lot of things that go into stuffing a BB into our A bodies.
I would suggest you seriously consider the intake and carb swap. We did this to my brothers '65 Skylark as well as dual exhaust. Huge change in performance and still good mileage. As Brian lead to in his question, you'll need the c.i. manifold.
Good luck,
Loren
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I've lived your current quandary back in the day, and currently, I own a 65 Skylark with 300 4bbl and 4 speed, 65 GS with 401 4 speed and 64 Skylark with a 455 & TH400. The simple question is, what do you want to do with the car, or what kind of driving experience do you desire? The 4bbl really wakes up the 300. Add some rear gears (3:55 maybe or 3:73) for real fun. A 4 speed makes it way more fun and parts are easy to find since it's a BOP motor, not a nailhead. For just a pleasant cruiser it's a great combo, but it's a far, far cry from a big block. If you built the 300 as radical as possible, a mild 455 would still beat it. I've done it. Driving my 401 is about as pleasant an experience as I can describe, but it is not a 455 either. Nailheads can be made faster than stock, but the design is from 1952. If you're looking for a street/strip machine or a car that roasts the tires every time you stomp it, you should be looking at the 455. It's also a BOP motor and much easier to get parts for than a nailhead. Nailheads are nailheads, and many here love the design, but they require special transmissions, bellhousings, motor mounts, etc. And go-fast parts and options are limited and expensive. A well-tuned, mostly stock 455 in your car with decent gears and traction will run low 13's over 100 mph all day long. A 300 will be pressed to be in the 14's. The torque under your right foot sums it up. Have fun and good luck!
Pat
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Thanks for all the insight. I do have a cast iron 4 barrel intake,with a Carter afb carb on it.
As far as what I want the car to do, I have no desire to run it on a strip (besides the wife would have a fit). I would just like to have some humpf behind the pedal when I mash it. It sounds like putting some effort into the 300 would get me far enough.
Thanks for all the insight.
Btw Pat, I am insanely jealous as it appears you have one of each to choose from. What a deliema it must be to decide which to drive on a given day :notworthy:
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1bigdog
Glad to hear you have the castiron 4bl.
In 1972 I had a 1964 with 11/1 compression, 4bl, 300 auto and aluminum heads and manifold.
I kept blowing head gaskets and roting out the head water passages.
The oil embargo came along and I got a castiron 2bl block and installed a 4bl with manifold.
I could then find gas to run in the car and as everyone else has said the 4bl makes a big difference.
You will need gears or clutch or both to re-tar the driveway with rubber but the 300 is great for everyday.
Good luck with your project.
mdkd
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Hi,
Have you seen the write up on V8 Buick about the article from Hot Rod that bored and stroked a 300 and made some impressive numbers
Either way it all depends on what you want to end up with, all stock, stock appearing, etc...
I got a 65 300 4v, 4 speed, 3:23 gears, I got off Brian and its a very fun car to drive, not real bad on gas and drove for a number of years down in NC as a daily driver and did the trek back and forth to MI about once a month, 800 miles each way.
I also have a 65 Skylark ruining a 401 4 speed, 3:55 gears and it is a lot quicker and will burn the tires down, yet 10-12 mpg though.
I agree putting in a newer BBB motor is cheaper and would be the most bang for the buck, that was my original plan for my 65 Skylark before I came across all the GS parts to do the conversion
Either way add a stick as that will add to the smile factor if you stay with a 300 you might be able to score a newer 5 speed from a S-10 and maybe even save some gas milage
Regards,
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Have you seen the write up on V8 Buick about the article from Hot Rod that bored and stroked a 300 and made some impressive numbers
That's a neat build. Great to see someone do something different and explore the 300's potential.
TA Performance has been working on some aluminum heads for the Buick 300/340 and Rover. Add those to a 349 stroker, and you've got a serious '300' :glasses9:
Want to be different? Add a turbocharger to that 300. :icon_biggrin:
I have a '66 Special in which I added the alum '64 4 bbl intake (yes they fit), dual exhausts, and a Richmond 5 speed to. Makes for a real nice combo.
Consider a few upgrades such as a fast-ratio steering box and bigger sway bars, and it'll make for a much nicer handling car!