65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Drivetrain => The Dual Quad => Topic started by: 65GSConv on April 28, 2020, 08:19:04 PM
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Does anyone know if the 1963-1965 Buick Riviera 401/425 Dual Quad Chrome Dual Snorkel air cleaner is an exact factory OEM for the 1965 Buick Skylark GS Dual Quad setup (as in, would pass BCA judging)?
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Well.... the Skylark GS wasn't officially available with the 2x4 option. Therefore if a 2x4 setup was installed, whether by the dealer or new owner, it would have the same parts as the other offerings such as the Riv.
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What Walt said.... :headbang:
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So the Riviera's of 1963-1965 did not have a possibility of different carburetors than those provided "unofficially" for the 65 Skylark GS? They were all Carter AFB's? And the Riviera 425's used the same Carter AFB's as the Riviera 401 on dual quad setups?
Related - the story on the 1965 Skylark Gran Sport was that the dual quad setup could be sent by the factory with the car to the dealer for dealer installation. I also thought I read somewhere on this forum that the distributor was unique, and there was a unique cam, besides the intake manifold, carbs, air cleaner, and valve covers. Did dealers go as far as replacing the distributors and take the engine apart to install the replacement cam? Maybe to ask the question a little differently - what was all in the box that the factory provided and the dealer installed to make this conversion prior to buyer pickup?
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The dual quads were factory installed only on Riviera and Wildcat Gran Sport models starting in 1965 model, I believe, and those were all 425's. The Rivieras were all mated with the automatic transmission. The Wildcats were available with either the automatic or a 4-speed transmission. The dual quads were not installed from the factory on the 401 in any model.
Yes, the dual quad engines had different distributors that had a different spark curve and were installed with different initial timing set. All used Carter AFBs, with the same front carbs and different rear (primary) carbs. The correct rear carbs for the manual transmission application are really rare and hard to find in the wild. Due to the fact that the number of 4-speed Wildcat GS models sold was very small compared with the automatics in the Wildcat and Riviera GS models.
The only documentation I"m aware of for dealer conversion of 65 & 66 Skylark GS's is provided in a TSB from Buick Technical Service. It's Buick Zone Service Bulletin No. 620 dated April 15, 1966. A copy is attached.
The only downside to the factory setup on the Buicks is that big air cleaner really hides all the "coolness" underneath! :BangHead:
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Chuck, this is perfect - exactly what I was looking for.
I do see the parts list includes a new distributor assembly. I see the parts list does not include a new cam or new valve covers.
Figure 1 shows the cast aluminum "ribbed" BUICK valve covers - and Figure 1 was an illustration for the 1966 Wildcat and Riviera Gran Sport models. Does this mean these particular valve covers were never a truly available option from Buick on a new 1965 Skylark Gran Sport, even when the dual quad kit was provided? Just the normal stamped-steel valve covers, or the chrome valve covers that were available as part of an engine dress-up kit on 1965 Skylark Gran Sports?
Figures 2 & 3, photos of a 1966 Skylark Gran Sport, shows the cast aluminum "ribbed" BUICK valve covers as well. Do you know if these particular type of valve covers became available for the Skylark Gran Sport for the first time in the 1966 model year?
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The aluminum covers were never an RPO on a Skylark GS that I’m aware of. Quite a few were probably added as over the counter dealer add ons.
Mark
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I also noted that the parts list does not include a camshaft, but it is shown with part number in the diagram. :dontknow:
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From that perspective, so are the valve covers, both left & right sides (with part numbers).
Anyone know what factory 401 Skylark GS engine had for an original cam shaft part number?
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The aluminum covers were never an RPO on a Skylark GS that I’m aware of. Quite a few were probably added as over the counter dealer add ons.
Mark
The chrome dress up kit with valve covers and air cleaner seems like it was installed on a lot of Skylark Gran Sports in 65 and 66.
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My apologies - I wasn't very specific. I was referencing the cast aluminum ribbed BUICK valve covers that seem to often be on 65 Skylark GS's that have dual quads, and are shown in the diagram and pics in the service bulletin Chuck provided. My question was focused if a buyer of a new 65 Skylark GS order these specific valve covers from the dealer/factory, or if they were included in the kit that Buick provided to the dealers when the buyer wanted dual quads, or were those obtained as a Wildcat / Electra / LaSabre set and put onto a Skylark GS. And I understand this was so long ago that just about nobody is left that would know with certainty. Just wondering how BCA judging a 65 Skylark GS would treat dual quads, cast aluminum ribbed BUICK valve covers, etc. Just curiosity killing this cat.
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I believe the dress up kit was chrome air cleaner and chrome valve covers. The aluminum ribbed valve covers came on other cars like Rivieras or Wildcats with the hi-po package. Ribbed were not offered on Skylark GS to my knowledge. On my cars I put them on.
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All
Has any of the 65 Skylark GS cars competing in the BCA Nationals in the last few years lost points on this question?
Milton
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All
Also for those of you that don't know what we are talking about there are pictures of the 65 Buick Beauty kit and the 65 Buick 2x4 carb setup in the 65GS.com photo gallery..Sorry I didn't see the Aluminum valve covers there. The search function in the forum is also very helpfull.
The aluminum BUICK finned valve cover were and are very popular with both the restorer and dress up crowd so they have been copied by a lot of aftermarket vendors. Be careful if your looking for originals.
Milton
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Hi Everyone, My Father worked in a Buick service center for over 30 years and when I went to put a set of Aluminum ribbed valve covers on my 65GS (Back in the early 90s) my Father wanted to know why ? I did not quite understand why he was questioning me until he explained. That back then "the Aluminum ribbed valve covers went on the Rivs and Wildcats and the Chrome Dress up Kit went on the Skylark GSs". And he also said "the 2X4 setups went on Rivs & Wildcats as per the customer request and he did not remember putting one on a Skylark," He always said "these Skylarks are fast enough"
I put a set of ribbed covers on mine anyway because I like them. And I don't ever remember anyone at a BCA National meet saying anything about it.
Thanks Chuck for posting the dealer service bulletin, I did not have that one in my GS literature.
Tony :thumbsup:
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Tony and all,
Here is another TSB, this one is on dual carb adjustments. All of these are courtesy of John Egel. And all good info to have!
:cheers2:
Chuck
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Had my 65 GS with the 2x4 set up and ribbed valve covers judged at the 2017 BCA nationals and had no mark downs. The car received 394 out of 400 points. Received it's senior gold badge.
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Thank-you, everyone who replied. You've answered my questions. I does appear the BCA allows the same dual quad setups on 65 Skylark Gran Sports that were factory available for the Riviera and Wildcat in judging, so the perspective must be from the BCA that such setups are authentic and period correct on 65 Skylark Gran Sports. That is what I was looking for.