EFI

[sjfd04]

Anyone install an after market EFI system? 

[elagache]

Dear Tom and mid-60s Buick owners contemplating high-tech,

Anyone install an after market EFI system?

Uh, Yes!  I have done it.  Although on a Buick big-block instead of a nailhead although I don't think that would be an issue.  I started a thread on the whole exercise here:

http://65gs.com/board/index.php?topic=2719.msg17500#msg17500

Unfortunately, my trusty wagon developed valve-train trouble and the engine is back at TA-Performance trying to straighten that out.  I also had some sort of heat-soak problem that would occasionally leave me stranded.  I was trying to solve this one when the valve-train started to make strange sounds.

The FAST Sportsman system isn't very discreet either.  If you want a prototype look, you might want to look at some other systems that try to keep all the electronics in a carburetor looking throttle-body.

For all the hassles of adjusting the EFI parameters with a laptop computer, I was extremely pleased with the results.  These are powerful engines that can be extremely noisy and unruly if they aren't given exactly the timing and air-fuel mixture that suits them the best.  With some careful tweaking I got the engine in my trusty wagon to be quieter and more responsive even from a cold start.  With an aftermarket EFI, you get many of the modern driving advantages for your classic car.

EFI isn't for everyone, but if you are willing to sweat the details, you'll get a much nicer running engine without any of the carburetor hassles.

If you have any questions, by all means ask! 

Cheers, Edouard 

[TrunkMonkey]

My cousin has been running a FiTech system for about a year on a '69 SS BBC.

He ditched the Command Center (think fuel accumulator located  near the EFI, to help with fuel supply at WOT) and installed a Spectra FI fuel tank and he also chose to replace the Sectra internal pump/sender with an Aeromotive 340 log.

After dicking around with the FiTech Command Center, and having issues with return to idle and some other wonkyness, and getting rid of that, he said it performs flawlessly.

Seems some folks have issues with the Command Center and some have no trouble at all.

IMO, since a good FPR and Pump are available, necessary, near the same cost, and removes a "failure point" and simplifies the system, that is the way to go.

As with all things auto, your mileage may vary. There are several systems available and pros and cons vary.

I needed to replace my fuel tank and body line, so I put in a Spectra FI tank, 3/8 line and an Aeromotive regulator that has both springs for carb and EFI.
If I decide to put the 2x4 FiTech on my nailhead, all I need to do is replace the FPR spring and install the TBIs.

It is a $1400 cost for the 2x4 setup, but I'll run the carbs if they are not causing any troubles.

[elagache]

Dear Michael and mid-60s Buick owners with an eye to high-tech,

My cousin has been running a FiTech system for about a year on a '69 SS BBC.

There is certainly a lot of happy owners of the FiTech systems.  It is clear that FiTech made a quantum improvement in self-tuning and that has made all the difference.  I just don't know how close their self-tuning algorithm gets to what is possible when you work carefully with available adjustments.  For example, I was able to dramatically lower the cold idle RPM on my wagon's engine.  That makes maneuvering the car much easier from a cold start.  For someone who has only driven a classic with a carburetor, the FiTech system may be more than enough of an improvement to satisfy them.  I'll be the first to admit using a laptop to tune an engine is a hassle and has a steep learning curve.  Still, I sure would like to see a head-to-head comparison of the FiTech system against a system that has been tuned by an expert in order to understand what the trade-offs are.

IMO, since a good FPR and Pump are available, necessary, near the same cost, and removes a "failure point" and simplifies the system, that is the way to go.

. . . .

I needed to replace my fuel tank and body line, so I put in a Spectra FI tank, 3/8 line and an Aeromotive regulator that has both springs for carb and EFI.
If I decide to put the 2x4 FiTech on my nailhead, all I need to do is replace the FPR spring and install the TBIs.

It is a $1400 cost for the 2x4 setup, but I'll run the carbs if they are not causing any troubles.

My wagon also as a Spectra Premium tank with the built-in EFI pump.  She also has the modern fuel plumbing standard with the unused fuel being returned to the tank.  Since I want to take my wagon on long trips this basically was required, but I think if you want to go the EFI route it is the most prudent thing to do.

Cheers, Edouard 

[TrunkMonkey]

Yes. The EFI has become very nice in kit form, and we have come a long way.

Will be nice to get yer billy-goat back on it's feet, no?

Anything to report on the engine?

[elagache]

Dear Michael and mid-60s Buick fans of high-tech,

Yes. The EFI has become very nice in kit form, and we have come a long way.

There are definitely some nice upgrades that allow you to put EFI on a "more mature" engine.  However, it is one thing to to put EFI hardware on a engine designed for a carburetor.  It is something else to get EFI to give you the benefits of a modern driving car on that classic engine.  I remember being frustrated about how jerky it was to move my trusty "billy-goat" wagon from a cold start and I realized that our 2000 Buick Century idles cold at about the same RPM as hot.  So I tried lowering the cold idle RPM on my wagon and . . . . . KEWL!!!! 

Will be nice to get yer billy-goat back on it's feet, no?

Anything to report on the engine?

Unfortunately, the last I heard was that the lifters had been upgraded to Johnson lifters from the original Morel lifters.  Alas, there was still some noticeable valve train noise issues.  Mike was still fussing with it when the holiday season hit.  I have a feeling that he was distracted with the development of the new big-block Stage-6 heads and the aluminum heads for the Buick 350.  I hope that with the first of the year things will calm down and Mike will have sometime to work on da' rascally Billy-goat wagon engine once more.

Cheers, Edouard 

[TrunkMonkey]

I will keep my fingers crossed and my eyeballs on your updates. 

[Super65lark]

These EFI systems are really enticing. Myself, I'm kind of done with carburetion.
And if you're a Car Craft reader, they often have comparisons and articles.

Personally if I had the money, I'd buy a complete already built/tuned EFI like the ZZ6.

You have to change the fuel tank, is that right?

[sjfd04]

I have been in research mode for a couple months, still a lot to sort through.  They do make a fuel tank that is an exact replacement that puts the pump in the tank, which means you have to remove and block-off the mechanical pump.  The other issue is running a new fuel line front to back, it needs to be a 3/8 inch line.  I had a 65 442 which has a 3/8 inch line, just can't remember what side it ran on.  If it is on the driver side, I believe it would work as long as you can find one for a convert.  I really like the Holley setup, looks real simple to install and you can control your electric fans.

[TrunkMonkey]

I have a 1964 Skylark convertible. (Same frame as the GS)
The fuel and brake lines run down the driver's side.
I replaced both, and used 5/16 brake, and 3/8 stainless from inlinetube.com.

It is easier to pull the fuel line with the brake line removed, but not necessary.

Car on four jack stands, so the rear axle drops and also enough room to manipulate the line.

When I pulled mine, it was easier to disconnect the line front and rear, and when I went to start bending it to remove it, it broke into three pieces. It was the original line.

So, I tied some wire to the front of the line where it comes out of the front frame horn, and then pulled the front out the back under the car near the transmission crossmember so I had something to use to pull the new line into the frame.

Disconnected the emergency brake cable, and dropped the crossmember, then pulled the front of the line through and as far as I could get it to go forward. This gives you another foot and a half less on the back to work with, and made it very easy to get int. I was concerned about having to lift the body, but not necessary. Then worked the back of the fuel line over the rear axle and  once it was in place, I pulled it backwards and worked it into the line clamps (OEM) and connected the rear, then the front.

You may have to do a little bending, iit is real close as shipped, but not 100% perfect fit.

It was actually easier to run the 3/8 stainless fuel line, than it was the 5/16 stainless brake line.

Rather than run a fuel return from the front to the rear, i used a shorter line in the back from the regulator back to the tank.

HTH

[elagache]

Dear Tom, Iain, Michael and mid-60s Buick owners with a taste for high-tech,

These EFI systems are really enticing. Myself, I'm kind of done with carburetion.
And if you're a Car Craft reader, they often have comparisons and articles.

Personally if I had the money, I'd buy a complete already built/tuned EFI like the ZZ6.

You have to change the fuel tank, is that right?

You don't have to change the tank, but it is more prudent.  I took a look at FiTech and they have a really attractive line of systems that are less expensive than I paid:

http://fitechefi.com/

They also are self-tuning so you don't have to hassle with that.  If you prefer the option to be able to fine-tune the EFI parameters, there is a model that can be adjusted via laptop.  So you really can keep your engine and still upgrade to EFI.  Like you, I just can't stand the carburetor hassles.

They do make a fuel tank that is an exact replacement that puts the pump in the tank, which means you have to remove and block-off the mechanical pump.

Blocking off the mechanical pump can end up being difficult because of leaks.  You can buy a very nice fuel pump block-off plate from this eBay seller:

http://stores.ebay.com/jacerenterprises/

They look nice and the one on my wagon finally eliminated the leaking from the fuel pump location on the block.

Cheers, Edouard 

[TrunkMonkey]

I used a nice finned block off plate that matches my valve covers and air cleaner .

My tank was needing to be replaced due to internal scale and whatnot over the years, so I went with the EFI tanks to make my 'lark "EFI Ready".

If I ever go that route, I only need to replace the regulator spring to allow higher pressure.

And if a "Fuel" sump is added, it will facilitate having fuel available for the EFI, and not any worry with an OEM tank and fuel starvation/leaning to the EFI.

But, the cost, trouble and potential for problems or, God forbid, a fire, with a sump (especially in the engine compartment), the fuel tank was a "no brainer" for me.

I got the tank for $210 shipped, so it was a very good deal, and not more than I would pay for a carb tank.

[elagache]

Dear mid-60s Buick owners with an interest in high-tech,

I assume most of you saw this thread on V-8 Buick, but just in case somebody missed it:

http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/nailhead-with-fitech-efi-up-and-running.329404/

A fellow over there got the FiTech system working with a Nailhead.  According to him, the conversion went very smoothly.  So if want modern driveability with a Nailhead, here is at least one possible way to do it.

Cheers, Edouard