Genuine GS?

[Pete Phillips]

I'm being challenged by a potential buyer of my car, that it might not be a genuine GS. It has the battery tray on the driver's side, the wider front anti-sway bar, the supplemental plates over the motor mounts (torsion plates?), no exterior side molding other than the venti-ports and Skylark head on front fender, no evidence of side molding holes being filled on the back of the fenders or rear quarter panels, 401 4-barrel engine with the correct "LR" code--but no serial number after that, except for the numbers 351, provision for dual exhaust (previous owner converted it to single exhaust but the hangers and hardware for duals are still there), bucket seats, console, floor shift lever, and the larger 1-1/8 inch front brake wheel cylinders. Also has the Gran Sport name plate on the grille, trunk lid, glove box door, and C-pillars.
I will attach a photo of the data plate on the firewall. Interested to see what this knowledgeable group says.
Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[Mark Ascher]

Hi Pete,

Your GS is a Fremont built car. There are no codes on the data plate that will tell you about options - this a Fremont only quirk since they had their own coding system. Car is a third week of March car - well past the GS build start date, so ok there. Paint code is DD - Astro Blue top and bottom. Trim is 191 - Blue bucket seats. You might want to check the code on the front of the engine. it is located on the front, by the lifter valley cover. Should be the VIN there. you can check that vs the VIN plate in the door jamb. If it's the original engine, those codes will match, and most GS cars will have "LR" stamped on the same area as the VIN number. Please note - some GSs had "LT" codes, which is ok.

I'm pretty confident from all the pics I've seen that it is a real GS!

Mark

[dsags]

Pete,

The VIN is stamped into the drivers side front of the engine opposite side from the LR  351 stamping. If it matches you are golden. If not I agree with Mark that it is almost definitely a Gran Sport from everything I have seen.

Dan

[WkillGS]

It could be.
(Mark beat me to the response).....Most assembly plants will show the '4S' code on the cowl data plate, denoting the GS option.
The exception is the Fremont plant, which did not put the codes on the cowl plate, just a manifest number that is indecipherable. Your car was built in Fremont, hence no code shown for the GS option.... the likely reason the purchaser is questioning the authenticity.

Your transmission may have the VIN stamped on the trans, usually on the top surface of either the tail housing or the rear bearing support (between main case and tailhousing).
If there is any paperwork inside the car, it should show codes or components used only for a GS. A build sheet could be hidden somewhere (a rare find), or a Fisher build sheet may be stuck in the underside of the rear seat.

[Mark Ascher]

Walt,

The Fremont cars sometimes have a hand written sheet stashed somewhere in the interior that has all the codes on it.
I found two such sheets - one under the carpet, and another jammed in the seat cushion of one of the buckets seats.
I think Dan found one in his car too.

A couple of other points: if was not a GS, and a Skylark post car, there would be evidence somewhere of removal of the halo moldings.
Pete's car has the proper GS roof trim. Another thing that throws some people is the post cars use the Special door panels and seat
pattern.

Mark

[gs spoken here]

Boxed frame?

[cwmcobra]

Boxed frame?

You beat me to it.....your post came up as I was typing the same thing.  Since the car is not a convertible, and if it has the boxed convertible frame, that's strong further evidence that it's a GS.

Chuck

[option B9]

  It should also have that Tach wire coming out of the wire harness & taped up near the drivers side wheel well.
 
             Tony

[GS66]

If the VIN on the block matches its for sure since you couldn't get the 401 in the plain Skylark. There's a lot of Fremont cars out there.

[sjfd04]

It appears to have the cross-bracing on the radiator support as well as a cross-flow radiator.

[35chevcoupe]

Maybe he's trying to use it as a bargaining tool .
Theres just to much correct about the car not to be a true GS . 

[elagache]

Dear Pete, Mark, Dan, Walt, Bill, Chuck, Tony, Jim, Tom, John, and mid-60s Buick experts at . . . . . "spitting hairs!"

Interested to see what this knowledgeable group says.

I was very interested when Pete asked this question, but . . . . . . WOW!!

Maybe Loren has been going all wrong as far as figuring out a way to support 65GS.com.  Perhaps he should come up with a game show where guys on this board are given a few clues and are challenged - is it a 1965 GS or not!! 

Great job guys!

Cheers, Edouard 

[TrunkMonkey]

... Perhaps he should come up with a game show where guys on this board are given a few clues and are challenged - is it a 1965 GS or not!! 

Great job guys!

Cheers, Edouard 

yes!

Maybe a screw, a fuse or a bolt.    No doubt, someone will be able to tell.

Put CSI to shame.

[Mister T]

Walt,

The Fremont cars sometimes have a hand written sheet stashed somewhere in the interior that has all the codes on it.
I found two such sheets - one under the carpet, and another jammed in the seat cushion of one of the buckets seats.
I think Dan found one in his car too.

Mark

The Bamboo Cream car Dan bought from me had that handwritten code sheet. I might have a photocopy of it somewhere.

[Pete Phillips]

Thanks for the info. My car definitely has the boxed frame, cross-flow radiator, and the "X" braces in front of the radiator. It also has the tachometer wire feed taped up near the driver's front wheel well.  I cannot find anything under the seats--they were recovered years ago. The engine block has absolutely no evidence of a VIN stamped in it, opposite the LR-351 stamping.
Pete Phillips, BCA #7338
Leonard, Texas