Author Topic: 65 Buick Grand Sport Nail head 401 (Read 4738 times)

1963 Riviera · « **on:** March 14, 2014, 11:46:20 AM »

I have a 1963 Buick Riviera I recently purchased. Body solid, engine shot. Hooked up with Chris and am purchasing his 401 nail head from a 1965 Buick GS. He suggested posting my question of what type of carb to go with. I have the original 2 barrel, which needs to be rebuilt. But I know that there are better options. Looking for some input as to what type of carb to look for or if I should consider fuel injection?? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. My plan is to keep the car as original as possible and am going to repaint factory silver and has very nice original black interior. Chris also talked about the Coy rims with lower profile tires, which I really like that look. Also I may have available for sale a pair of the exhaust manifolds and oil pan from the 65 engine as my plan is to use the manifolds and oil pan from my original 1963 401 nail head. Any idea on what you think they are worth?. Thanks, Bryan

Chris · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2014, 11:49:46 AM »

Welcome to the forum Bryan, I'm sure the guys will have some suggestions for the carb.

Thanks,

Chris

Brian · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2014, 12:24:13 PM »

I think the 2bbl carb you have is from an older 401--pretty sure all Riverias came with a 4bbl. Not sure if the 63 Riv had the Rochester 4GC or the Carter AFB carb. I am thinking it is the Carter though.

telriv · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2014, 02:25:01 PM »

Originally the car had a 4bbl. carb. either a Rochester 4GC or an Carter AFB. Hate to tell you this but, the crank is different between the '63 & '65. One is for a DynaFlow, '63, & one is for a TH400, "65. No need to change the manifolds or oil pan as they are the same.

Tom T.

2x4 gransport · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2014, 02:35:39 PM »

My 63 Riviera had the Rochester carb and they were all 4 barrels,I think the 2bbls came on LeSabres.

Harle

1963 Riviera · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2014, 03:39:56 PM »

My Bad, It is the Carter AFB. Rusty and needs a rebuild. Again thoughts on rebuild, more current carb on the market or fuel injection? Thanks, Bryan

telriv · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2014, 04:05:51 PM »

You're better off rebuilding the original AFB, which I can do, as it has the correct linkage for the trans. Use anything other & now you need to fab/mod the linkage for the trans. or else the car won't have any POWER.
One thing you haven't addressed yet is the back of the crank. As I said '63 & '65 are different.

Tom T.

1963 Riviera · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2014, 06:43:37 PM »

Ive also got a 65 GS switch pitch 2 speed automatic transmission to mate with the 1965 nail head. So that should take care of that problem right? I'd be interested in talking to you about rebuilding the Carter.

Dr Frankenbuick · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2014, 07:08:56 PM »

You will also need all of the switches for the switch pitch and kick down, and you will need to need to configure the off idle switch to the throttle rod. Then, I am not sure the ST300 will fit in place of the dynaflow without more major fabrication and driveshaft modification. I would not use a ST300 in a heavy Riv behind a 401. I would look for a 65-66 ST400 and the appropriate 64-66 Riv doner crossmember, linkage and driveshaft.

Brian · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2014, 07:02:47 AM »

I have a ST400 out of a 66 Riv that I will sell. I am sure it will need to be rebuilt--it came out of a Riv I parted in the late 80s, and it had been sitting for 10 years or more when I got it back then. It is in my storage building on the family farm near Roanoke, VA. Also have the sheet metal torque coverter cover to go on it. Don't have anything else though.

Dr Frankenbuick · « **Reply #10 on:** March 15, 2014, 09:13:50 AM »

I have a running 63 Riv 401 and dynaflow in my 63 Riv. The 401 idles sooth as glass and responds nicely to throttle. The dynaflow was rebuilt shortly before it was parked in 93. I don't know where you are, but I have been flirting with parting it out. I am in eastern PA.

Chris · « **Reply #11 on:** March 15, 2014, 11:45:09 AM »

Just talked to Brian a little while ago and he clarified that he has a four bbl carb on his existing engine instead of a two bbl and this probably changes a couple things.

Options:

1. GS motor with 63 Riv exhaust manifolds, oil pan, 4bb intake and rebuild his 4bbl carb. The GS specific parts could be sold and the money used to purchase a transmission that would work with the 65 motor and replace the Dynaflow (ST400??). He said that he has a shop where he lives that could shorten the drive shaft.

2. GS motor and retain the 4bbl intake but locate a 4bbl linkage setup and carb that works in the Riv. The GS specific parts could be sold and the money used to purchase a transmission that would work with the 65 motor and replace the Dynaflow.

3. Work out a deal with Dr. Frankenbuick and buy what sounds like might be a one for one swap.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2014, 08:44:29 AM »

Guys, please feel free to provide you opinions and ideas on these options. As I've explained to Brian, yes selling my engine would be nice but selling it to a guy that can really use it is more important. I encouraged him to post something here so the experts could help him decide on the best combination of parts for his car. I'm admittedly not a engine and transmission expert so your help is appreciated.

I think he's down to two choices:

- Use my engine with a ST400 transmission and have his drive shaft shortened. Rebuild or replace his 4bbl carb, reuse his linkage and sell all of the GS specific parts to help pay for the modifications. Net - a little stronger engine with a newer 3 speed transmission.

- Work out a deal with Dr. Frankenbuick on his engine / transmission and do a one for one swap. Net - a straight forward drive train swap.

The costs would obviously come down to whatever Dr. Frankenbuick was willing to sell his parts for and the additional modifications costs of use the GS motor. There could be parts from both options that could be resold to offset some of the investment but I don't know what the demand is on the 63 Riv engine parts.

Thanks,

Chris

WkillGS · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2014, 10:43:16 AM »

Thanks Chris, I wasn't going to butt in and mess up a sale. Since you gave to go-ahead, here's my opinion:

Bryan, where are you located? That's an important consideration when shipping an engine.
You should be able to find a running 401 or 425 for under $800.
A 401 or 425 would be correct for a '63 Riv. The 425 would have some extra torque for a heavy car.

The easiest/most original swap would be a '63 425 (1st year of 425), or a 59(?)-63 401. Either would have the correct crankshaft flange, flex plate, and carburetor linkage for your Dynaflow trans.

A 65-66 with a ST400 trans would be a better performer but won't be original and will require more modifications to install. I don't have any experience with the Dynaflow, so I'll leave that to others.
What was mentioned was the Dynaflow crank flange, trans and driveshaft length, and crossmember. You will also have to change/modify the shifter, trans cooler lines, and then there is the possible issue of changing the engine balance if you change the flexplate that came with the replacement engine. (or did Dynaflow use a neutral-balance flexplate?....it was much different than the 64-up trans flexplate).

I'll guess your choice would come down to originality vs performance vs cost, and your ability to do necessary modifications or pay someone to do it.

Chris · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2014, 10:56:47 AM »

Thanks Walt, that is the kind of advice I was looking for.

I was telling Brian that the GS engine could be purchased and the exhaust manifolds, oil pan, GS transmission could be sold separately and he should make back $350 - $500 of his investment back. Those parts can be shipped anywhere at reasonable costs and they are much more likely to sell than a complete engine.

The originality didn't seem to be a big issue (performance and reliability more important) and he has a mechanic to help him with the changes.

Thanks again

Chris