Starter wiring

[Super65lark]

Hey guys. I am working on my electrical and getting everything grounded,etc, the way it should be. I'm pretty sure I have starter heat soak as I run headers. I'm getting to that too.
But what concerns me is the wiring to the starter, excluding the large 4ga wire from the battery. I want to cut out and splice in some new wiring from the top of the engine on down to the starter. Would I be risking anything here? Electrical fires are really my nightmare.
I have a brand new harness too, but I'm not sure I have the energy or time for that right now. It's for a 300cu.in. and currently I run a 350.
If I did this, I would ditch the butt connectors and solder + heat shrink.

Reason I'm on to all this is because I was having ignition problems, stumbling, etc. And we all know improperly installed and/or old wiring will not work right.

[elagache]

Dear Iain and mid-60s Buick electricians,

Hey guys. I am working on my electrical and getting everything grounded,etc, the way it should be. I'm pretty sure I have starter heat soak as I run headers. I'm getting to that too.

So are you experiencing the starter not rotating when the engine is hot?  Is that why you suspect the starter heat soak?

But what concerns me is the wiring to the starter, excluding the large 4ga wire from the battery. I want to cut out and splice in some new wiring from the top of the engine on down to the starter. Would I be risking anything here? Electrical fires are really my nightmare.

I know it isn't easy, but could you perhaps take a photo of the wiring that you are thinking about replacing?  If the wiring isn't to blame, it would be better not to replace it.

I have a brand new harness too, but I'm not sure I have the energy or time for that right now. It's for a 300cu.in. and currently I run a 350.
If I did this, I would ditch the butt connectors and solder + heat shrink.

My wagon is using the original wiring hooked up to the Buick big-block, so I think you could replace the harness if you felt up to it.  The same wiring has also been used for a Buick 350 without issues.

Reason I'm on to all this is because I was having ignition problems, stumbling, etc. And we all know improperly installed and/or old wiring will not work right.

Can you give us more details on exactly what sort of ignition problems you are experiencing?  It might be easier to address the symptoms directly and get Ruthy working more reliably right now.  Then you can decide when you can spare the time for a engine wiring overhaul.

Cheers, Edouard 

[Super65lark]

Hi Edouard,

I think I found my culprit. I was having stuttering, surging issues which I thought might be ignition related. I read that if the engine backfires through the carb, it could be a lean condition. So I thought, what would make it lean? Too much air. I checked around and I discovered that the vacuum hose that connects the transmission kickdown was old and cracked. Same for a rubber block off for a vac port. Replaced both and so far, no more issues.
I do suspect that I have starter heat soak because it is hard to crank when hot, and it not a battery issue. I have no heat shield, so I think that might be an easy fix in the meantime.

When you say you are running original wiring, do you mean the engine harness? In your photos the wiring looks very good. Though it could be just because the mechanics did a nice job with the sleeves, etc.
I am definitely a fan of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' So for now you may be right, leave it alone.

[elagache]

Dear Iain and mid-60s Buick caregivers,

I think I found my culprit. I was having stuttering, surging issues which I thought might be ignition related.
. . 
I checked around and I discovered that the vacuum hose that connects the transmission kickdown was old and cracked. Same for a rubber block off for a vac port. Replaced both and so far, no more issues.

That sounds like a plausible diagnosis and since the problem has gone away, hopefully you have banished that gremlin for good!

I do suspect that I have starter heat soak because it is hard to crank when hot, and it not a battery issue. I have no heat shield, so I think that might be an easy fix in the meantime.

Certainly try a heat shield first.  That hopefully will lick this problem without too much effort.

When you say you are running original wiring, do you mean the engine harness? In your photos the wiring looks very good. Though it could be just because the mechanics did a nice job with the sleeves, etc.

Yes, I am referring to the OEM engine harness that Biquette came with in 1965.  Obviously, there has been a lot of additional wiring provided to support the Vintage Air A/C and the FAST Sportsman EFI among other things.  So finding that original 53 year old wiring in Biquette's engine bay is something of a challenge.  Also, as you say, Greg and the gang at Orinda Classic Car did dress up the engine bay with some wire looms and conduits.  Still the original wiring is in excellent condition because the car was kept in indoors most of the time.

Another board member, Ted Nagel put a Buick 455 in a 1965 Special wagon that only had the V-6 and he was able nonetheless to reuse the OEM wiring harness on the larger engine.  So if you decide to replace the engine wiring harness, the 300 harness should be sufficient for just about any engine you might want to put into Ruthy - even a big-block! .  . .

Cheers, Edouard 

[Super65lark]

Thanks Edouard,

I would love to have a power plant like yours someday. I drove her again today and all looks well. Funny how sometimes it is such a small, cheap part causing problems.
I didn't even have to go to the store, already had the parts.
But would Ruthy approve? I never met her but somehow I anticipate she would prefer the 300, even if mildly modified. Same goes for Marge, who sold me the car.
In any case, she remains on the road. As much as I love engines, I think my heart is really cosmetics. Paint, upholstery, etc. So hopefully I can get back there. I've got some issues pressing. 

[elagache]

Dear Iain and mid-60s Buick owners who listen to their cars,

But would Ruthy approve? I never met her but somehow I anticipate she would prefer the 300, even if mildly modified. Same goes for Marge, who sold me the car.
In any case, she remains on the road.

Well, I'll be their first to say you need to "listen" to your car and give her what she wants.

Of course the Buick 300 V-8 is a very historic engine.  It was born of the Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac experimental all aluminum 215 V-8:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#Buick_small-block

Alas, there were problems with the aluminum casting technology and by 1965 the 215 had evolved into an all iron 300 V-8.

Yet the story for this engine was hardly over.  As early as 1964 Rover was looking to purchasing an American V-8 engine and eventually this engine was purchased from GM:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine

By the time Rover came up with an all aluminum version of the Buick 300 it was so successful that GM tried to buy it back!  This engine was in production until 2004!  In contrast the Buick 350 was the last V-8 of Buick design and production ended in 1980.  So the Buick 300 would in a way live for over 30 years!

You can even take advantage of some of that Rover technology on the Buick 300.  TA-Performance sells aluminum Rover heads that can fit 300 with modifications.

As much as I love engines, I think my heart is really cosmetics. Paint, upholstery, etc.

. . . .  Oh I absolutely agree!  And did you know that you can use the same techniques outside of the engine bay to spruce up the rest of the car? . . . . .

Cheers, Edouard 

[Super65lark]

Thanks for that Edouard. I didn't know as much.
I do still have the 300 & st300. The block is actually ok, original bore. I had a cracked cam bearing, and as a 21 year old, threw in the towel because I couldn't afford the expensive parts any longer.
I was just kidding about Ruthy. Maybe she'd be happy that the car is still on the road and driven regularly. And, enjoyed!

[elagache]

Dear Iain and mid-60s Buick owners who listen to their cars, . . . .

I do still have the 300 & st300. The block is actually ok, original bore. I had a cracked cam bearing, and as a 21 year old, threw in the towel because I couldn't afford the expensive parts any longer.

Sounds like you have a very reasonable basis to rebuild the engine.  How many miles were on that engine?  Relatively speaking, rebuilding a 300 back to stock configuration shouldn't be that expensive.  Just be careful to make sure that it is rebuilt as a Buick engine.  One of the reasons Biquette doesn't have her original engine any more is that it was molested not once but twice by mediocre "plain vanilla" rebuilds.

Another way to put a "Buick heart" back into Ruthy is to keep on the look out for a Buick 350 that is being swapped out for a big-block.  Guys do replace working Buick 350 small blocks in order to get their big-block buzz and you can pick up a working engine for a modest cost.  Swapping the 350 into a 1965 engine bay can be done so the car looks very close to the 1965 factory appearance, and if you get the itch, there are many more performance parts for the 350 than the 300.

I was just kidding about Ruthy. Maybe she'd be happy that the car is still on the road and driven regularly. And, enjoyed!

I'm sure any car that is used is "happier" than one that isn't.  Cars that get used are better cared for, that's definitely a kind of "happy."  Still, Buicks suffer a lot from being "molested" because they are so rare and parts are hard to find.  I had a really desperate struggle to keep Biquette's drive train all Buick.  It isn't the sort of thing to rush into, but having the long term goal to bring your Buick back to a Buick heartbeat is well worth pursuing.

Cheers, Edouard