65GS.com - Buick Gran Sport Enthusiasts!
Drivetrain => Transmissions => Topic started by: wheelz on March 11, 2014, 04:29:12 PM
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Hey Guys! I recently purchased a 65 GS T10... The STAMPED case numbers are WC3152 and using Duanes Common Date Coding Manual, identifies as a March 31st, 1965, 2nd shift. AGREED?
Ok then... the CASE CASTING numbers identify as M14... or December 14??? Still with me?
So I show the tailshaft casted numbers are 12-9-64...
QUESTIONS ARE:
A. the tail shaft and the case were assembled around December 9th thru 14th, 1964.
B. the actual STAMPED NUMBERS in the tranny case are March 31st, 1965, so does this mean the tranny sat ona shelf from mid Dec till enda March waiting for a GS to plop it into? 3 MONTHS waiting time would be fairly common?
LAST QUESTION:
C. THREE RINGS on the input shaft indicate what gear ratio???
Wheelz, Tampa Bay
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...and I WOULD ALSO appreciate any assistance on shifters & linkages... I bought this shifter 10+ years ago off Fleabay... note says 1965 T10 shifter... however, my manual shows what appears to be a Competition plus shifter and the linkages are no where near the same? DO I have a T10 shifter??
Anybody gots a pix of your 65 GS T10 with shifter attached for a reference???
Again, THANX!
Wheelz, Tampa Bay
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3 rings is supposed to indicate the 2.2:1 first gear "high nickel " content gears, correct for the Buick T-10. These were also used in the 65 Wildcat 4-speed cars.
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Wheelz, the shifter looks like a Muncie. Does it bolt to the trans? Most 66/7 Skylark GS 4 speeds I have seen came with Muncie shifter and T10 in 66 and Muncie trans in 67, well I have only seen a few that were original. The 66/7 do not bolt to trans, bolt to cross member and body. I did see a picture in the GM manual of a Muncie shifter that did bolt to trans. I need to look for that, do not remember year or model.
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Looks good Wheelz, all legit! :thumbsup:
Tailshaft was cast in Dec '64. They only cast a few batches a year, so that December batch lasted for a couple of months.
Stamping on the case is the assembly date. If Duane says 3-31-65, I'm not going to argue with him!
Mine's a 'WG 6 6 2, or July 6, 1965, 2nd shift. Car was built 3rd week of August.
3 groove is correct for close-ratio GS trans.
Do you see a vin stamped on the top of that mid plate/bearing support? It's between the case and the tailhousing. And is there a code painted on the side of the case in yellow? Mine is a 'KT' code, letters are about 3 to 4 inches tall.
I once bought a shifter at a swap meet for $15. It had a shorter handle, but the body was identical to the one on my 65 GS. I think the Muncie shifter is the same.
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Guys..the shifter bolt pattern appears to match up with tailshaft...so I would assume it is a Muncie shifter as Bill mentioned. . .
..AND FIGURE THIS ONE OUT....
I purchased this shifter/Linkages as I mentioned on fleabay over 10 years ago.
The T10 was delivered from a seller in PA just yesterday, and this is weird... the shifter I bought 10 years ago, has whats left of the reverse LIGHT SWITCH ROD... obviously clipped... the tranny that I just bought, has the switch intact, altho grundgy and a mess, and a portion of "rod" was still intact, and , IT MATCHES UP to the partial rod on the shifter... :dontknow: ya. Try to figure that one out... :icon_scratch:
SEE? ~
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hmmmm... there's about a 1 in 5000 chance they were 'mates' earlier in their life. sooo....maybe.
Early vettes used the T-10, up to '63(?). I've seen the back-up light switch brackets and rods avail as repo's from vette resto suppliers such as Ecklers and Zip. I believe the switch is repo'd too... by a Pontiac supplier.
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I was curious also about the trans and codes....I tried to duplicate the KR code on mine which was nearly visible. I also attached the original shifter picture which I rebuilt this winter. Who out there knows what these codes mean?
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I posted the wrong pic....Here is the original shifter and back up switch.
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THANX for the replies!
Question for Schlepcar.... does your SHIFTER mount direct to the tailshaft? OR is there a bracket or spacer that mounts to the tailshaft THEN the shifter attaches to that bracket??
Ya see, the illustration pictures in my 65 GS SERVICE MANUAL BS-4-65, shows a MOUNTING PLATE part number 2223 that I dont have, WHICH may be why I have having some issues temporarily test mounting the shifter FOR POSITIONING purposes... BUT. . . . it also appears the Service manual illustration shows a HURST shifter and NOT a Muncie??
More PIX would be real helpful!!
..and Walt, I found the VIN on the tranny... thanx for pointing that out!
I am slowly converting over my 45 years experience in 1970-72 GS's, to the early model 65's...
Again ~ THANX for all your feedback guys!
Wheelz, Tampa Bay
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Here's what I'm tawk'n bout:
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Are you looking at the 65 GS supplement manual, or are you looking at the 65 Skylark/Special Chasis service manual? Regular skylark/Special with a 300 engine had a Hurst shifter up til mid year 65, and Hurst shifter has a plate that mounts to the tail housing for the shifter to mount to. The 65 GS has a GM muncie style shifter that mounts directly to the tail housing (see picture of mine below). The correct tail housing for a 65 -66 GS trans will be marked T10-7k on the passenger side of the housing and have the letters GS cast right between the shifter mounting bosses on the drivers side.
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Just saw your post--you were writing that while I was posting my reply. That is the diagram for the Hurst shifter on a 65 Special/Skylark with the 300 engine. You need to go to the home page of this website, then click on electronic garage and look at the '65 GS service manual. It will show the correct shifter and mounting for a 65 GS with the 401. You need to specifically look at page 75.
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ThanX for the detailed info Brian, I will take your advise and look it up.!
BTW, I thoroughly enjoyed monitoring the restoration progress of your 65 4 speed and I will definitely have to reference some of the pix I've saved for when the day comes for my restoration. :thumbsup:
Wheelz, Tampa Bay
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...... KR code ...... Who out there knows what these codes mean?
Wow, looks real nice, great job! :thumbsup: Do you still have the original rear end that went with that trans?
The KR code on the trans most likely refers to the speedo gear installed on the output shaft.
'KT' used a 8 tooth gear for 3.36 and 3.55 rear end ratios,
'KR' used a 7 tooth gear for 3.90 ratio,
'KP' used a 6tooth gear for 4.30 ratio.
I had remnants of a KT code on one of mine. looks like it was spray-painted on using a stencil.
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Mine did look as it was a stencil also. There is no bracket on the original shifter it just bolts directly in the middle hole that has the GS marked by it on tail shaft. I do not have the original rear to this car, but I know it was swapped out at one point. Thanks for the info on the codes, I had seen several and was not sure of their meaning. I hope to have the body back on this by mid spring.....Michigan really blows this year.
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3 rings is supposed to indicate the 2.2:1 first gear "high nickel " content gears, correct for the Buick T-10. These were also used in the 65 Wildcat 4-speed cars.
True it would be 2.20 first gear but only if the case is a T10K and if you pull the front bearing retainer and find a dimple, otherwize 3 rings would be a 2.64 first gear.